How does "TUR" form a concept? (Dave.)

--- In historical_linguistics@yahoogroups.com, Polat Kaya <tntr@C...>
wrote:

AN ESSAY ON "HOW DOES "TUR" FORM A CONCEPT?"


Dear Dave and Friends,

Greetings to all. Dave, in your letter, you directed several good
questions at me. The one regarding "how -tur forms a concept from a
stem word" is particularly complex and difficult to explain. You will
find my response in this essay.

You asked:

> Is the -tur suffix used as a 'collective'.

POLAT KAYA: I believe the term "collective" as used in English would
apply to "noun" rather than to suffix. In Turkish, the suffix -tur and
all its other forms starting with "t" or "d" such as -dur, -dIr, -dir,
dür are not used as "collective". Its altered forms: "-der", "-dor",
"-dr", "-tr", "-tor", "-dor", "-tre" and "-dre" are also found in the
so-called "Indo-European" languages since they are made up from
Turkish.

For example, the name "Alexander" has one of these forms at its end.
The name ALEXANDER is made up from two Turkish expressions depending
on how one takes the letter X in the name:

a) when the letter X = KH, the name Alexander becomes "ALEKHANDER"
which is from Turkish phrase "ALI KHAN'DIR" meaning "Great Lord He
is"; where the "he is" part is from the -der suffix.

b) when the letter X = KS, the name "Alexander" becomes "ALEKSANDER"
which is made up from either Turkish "AL OKUS AN'DIR" meaning "He is
the Red Bull of Sky" or Turkish "AL OGUZ HANDIR" meaning "He is the
Red Lord OGUZ". Again, the "he is" part comes from the -der suffix.

In both cases, he has elevated himself to the level of "Sun-God the
OGUZ" by using a title that is made up totally from Turkish contrary
to all the misleading information. Of course his title is altered and
distorted such that its Turkishness has been well disguised. It must
be noted that the suffix "-der" that appears at the end of Alexander
is none other than one form of the Turkish suffix "-tur".

You asked:

> anatur "motherhood"? apatur "fatherhood"? I realize it is difficult
> to translate some Turkish grammatical categories into English. May
> be, Polat, you can show how -tur forms a concept from a stem word.
>

POLAT KAYA: "anatur/anadur" while meaning "it is mother" could have
the meaning of "motherhood" only in some rare usage. "Mothershood" is
expressed with the term "analuk" or "analIk" that is, with the suffiz
-lIk which also has the forms of -lik, -luk, and -lük in accordance
with the vowel harmony rule of Turkish.

The same holds for "apatur" meaning "he is father, he is old father
(grandfather), he is old man". The term "apaluk" (apalik) would be
"fatherhood".

The term "apaapa" meaning "father's father" or "grandfather" has led
to the terms "papa" and "baba" which are used in many languages. The
English term "POPE" is a form of Turkish "PAPA" and "BABA".

We must also note that the English word "mother" is an anagram of
Turkish "ANATUR" or "AMATUR" meaning "she is mother". In the anagram
of "ANATUR", Turkish N would be changed to M. Similarly, the term
"father" is an anagram of Turkish "APATUR". Even the term "padre" or
"peder" is an anagram of Turkish "APADUR" meaning "he is father".

You can recognize the Turkish suffix "-tur" and "-dur" in the form
"-ther" in "mother" and "father" and "-dre", -der" in the other
so-called Indo-European words for "father". The linguists somehow
either have not recognized the Turkicness of all these so-called
"Indo-European" words yet, or do not want to. They have been very
lull about it. Please note that even the "LULL" is an anagram of
Turkish "LAL" (dilsiz) meaning "without tongue", that is, "one who
cannot speak", and hence, "very quiet".

As I have indicated earlier, the name TUR is one of the most prominent
of many names of the ancient Turanian Sky-God. Additionally it is the
name of the Tur/Turk peoples. The name TUR appears in Indo-European
Languages as TYR, TYRR and THOR referred to as Norse god.

In Greek, the term for "TURK" is given as "TOURKOS" which is
unquestionably an anagram of Turkish: a) "TUR OKOS" (TUR OGUZ) meaning
"Turk, Tur Oguz people"; b) "TURK OOS" (TÜRK OGUZ) again meaning "Turk
people" and "Oguz people". The Hellenized version of the Turkish
expression has been altered so that it cannot be recognized as
Turkish.

In Turkish, the name "TUR OKOS" also means "TUR BULL". Thus "TUR" is
a "Bull", that is, "a father figure". In Latin "TAURUS" and in Greek
"TAUROS" mean "bull". Both the Latin "TAURUS" and Greek "TAUROS" are
anagrams of Turkish "TUR AUS" (TUR OGUZ/AGUZ), that is, the name of
"Sky-God TUR-OGUZ" of ancient Tur/Turk peoples.

Turkish "OKUS/OKUZ/OKOZ" meaning "BULL" was the animal logo of the
Sky-God OGUZ. This is clearly indicated with a drawing of a "wild
bull" on line 2 of the Turkish "OGUZ KAGAN Epic". This name OGUZ and
its logo OKUS and the religious concept that they represented were
deceptively obliterated from the religion of ancient Turanians. The
"Golden Calf" mentioned in Judeo-Christianity books is nothing but the
Turkic "OGUZ" (OKUS). The majestic southern Anatolian "TAURUS"
mountains carry the ancient name of the Sky-God "TUR AUS" (TUR OGUZ)
to this day. Claiming that the name of these mountains is from Greek
or Latin origin is nothing but spreading disinformation.

You asked:

> "how -tur forms a concept from a stem word."

POLAT KAYA: This is a difficult concept to grasp and even more
difficult to explain. However, I will try to explain as I see it in my
own terms and way.

There are many evidences that the life of people in ancient Turanian
world was very much interwoven with the name and the concept of the
trinity Sky-God, that is, the Sky-Father-God, Sun-God and Moon-God
(GÖK-Ata-Tanri, Gün-Tanri, Ay-Tanri), Peoples' lives were influenced
by God's attributes and requirements. Probably, having the name TUR
as a suffix in Turkish is a way of making sure that the name does not
get to be forgotten. As long as Tur/Turk people and their language
Turkish live, the name TUR also lives in the language.

To expand TUR into a concept from a stem or suffix position, first we
should know the following: In Turkish, both the personal pronoun for
3rd person singular and demonstrative pronoun pointing to an object at
a distance are known by the word "O", that is: "O" can mean "he",
"she" or "it", or "O" can mean "that". With this background knowledge,
first let us start with the Turkish expression "OTUR" (ODUR) which can
be viewed in a number of ways:


a) "OTUR", when we mentally separate it into "O TUR", it would mean
"That is TUR". In this case "TUR" is noun and is pointed out by the
demonstrative "O". In saying this, if one points to the sky, that
would refer to the Sky-God. Otherwise it would indicate a person or
object by the name "TUR". Additionally, again in the religious
context, in the expression "O'tur", meaning "he is", "O" refers to
"God". For example, if the question was put as: "Who determines the
"fate" of man?", the answer may be in Turkish: "O'tur" meaning "HE is"
referencing "Sky-God". Then if a second question is put such as: "Who
is He?" The answer again may be: "O TUR" (O TanrI) meaning "That TUR"
or "That is TUR". Hence in this case "TUR" is "GOD".

b) "OTUR" (Otur, odur) would mean "That is him/her/it" identifying a
person or object.

c) "OTUR" (Otur, Odur) would mean "He is, she is, it is".


The Turkish suffix -tur being equivalent to "it is" is generally
attached to the end of a noun. For example, when we say in Turkish: "O
DAGTUR", meaning "that is mountain" or "it is mountain", while
pointing to a mountain (DAG, TAG, TAU), it is a general identification
of the name "DAG".

The same expression can also take the form "O'TUR DAG" meaning "that
is the mountain" implying that "what I am pointing at is the
mountain". However, the Turkish expression in this form can take
another very subtle conceptual direction not readily visible. In this
form, the expression "OTUR DAG" can be taken as "O TUR DAG" meaning
"That Tur is the mountain". In this context, the "TUR" becomes the
"mountain", that is to say: "That TUR is the Mountain" or
alternatively, "That mountain is the TUR". In this subtle usage of the
Turkish expression "OTUR", suddenly the "majesty of the Sky-God"
explodes like a "nova" in all directions. It becomes a true life
philosopy for those people who can see this veiled view. I will try to
explain this situation with the following examples that summarize my
view of TUR and how it becomes a concept.

1. "OTUR DAG" meaning "that TUR is the mountain." In ancient Turanian
culture the Sky-God and the mountains are very related. Many majestic
mountains are given Turkic names related to the name of the Sky-God.
The name of one son of Oguz Han was "DAG HAN", i.e., "Mountain Lord".

2) "OTUR OGUZ" meaning "that TUR is the OGUZ". Hence, "TUR is OGUZ"
and "OGUZ is TUR" the ancient Turanian Sky-God. It also means the TUR
people (Turs/Turks) and OGUZ people (Turs/Turks) are one and the same.

3) "OTUR OGUZ" (O TUR O GÖZ) meaning "that TUR is that EYE" referring
to both the Sun and the Moon being the "eyes" of the Sky-God and also
TUR being those "eyes".

4) "OTUR OGUZ" (O TUR AGUZ) meaning "that TUR is the Mouth" and "that
TUR is the Language". Without "mouth" no living being survives, and
without "AGUZ", i.e., "the language" no civilization could exists.

Thus, as part of the language, many Turkish names such as: "TURAY",
"TURGOZ", TURAN, TURHAN and "TÜRKÜZ" and TURKOUZ (TURQUOISE), and many
more names like these are coined after the TUR and OGUZ.

5. "OTUR GÜN" meaning "that TUR is the Sun"; Since the SUN gives off
light and heat and was the source of all life on Earth, it was
regarded by ancient Turanians as the "RIGHT EYE" (SAG GÖZ) or "SEEING
EYE" (GÖR GÖZ) or "FIRE EYE" (KOR GÖZ) of the SKY-GOD. OGUZ-HAN'S
first son was named "GÜN-HAN" meaning "SUN LORD".

6. "OTUR AY" meaning "that TUR is the Moon"; Since the Moon does not
give off light or heat like the Sun and since it was not a life-giving
deity, it was regarded by the ancient Turanians as the "LEFT EYE" (SOL
GÖZ) or "BLIND EYE" (KÖR GÖZ) of the SKY-GOD. OGUZ-HAN'S second son
was named "AY-HAN" meaning "MOON LORD".

7. "OTUR DENIZ" meaning "that TUR is the sea"; one of the six sons of
Oguz Han was named "DENIZ-HAN".

8. "OTUR SU" meaning "that TUR is the water"; without water, there
would be no life on earth and that makes water (su) a god-like
substance.

9. "OTUR HAVA" meaning "that TUR is the air"; similarly, without "air'
there would be no life on earth and hence, water is also a god-like
substance.

10. "OTUR ATAM" meaning "that TUR is my father"; referring to the
creator Sky-God as the first father, and also referring to the first
human father without which there would be no man and his civilization
as we know it.

11. "OTUR UZAY" meaning "that TUR is the space"; without the space,
there would be nothing.

12. "OTUR GÖK" meaning "that TUR is the sky"; one of the sons of Oguz
Han was named "Sky-Lord" (Gök-Han).

13. "OTUR ATOM" meaning "that TUR is the atom".

14. "OTUR TOHUM" meaning "that TUR is the seed."

15. "OTUR ÇIÇEK" meaning "that TUR is the flower";

16. "OTUR HERSEY" meaning "that TUR is everyting".

17. "OTUR TANRI" meaning "that TUR is GOD".


As can be seen this list can be unlimited. In the words of Turkish
mystic poet-philosopher AShIK VEYSEL: "HER NEYE BAKARSAM SEN VARSIN
ORDA" [1] meaning "Whatever I look at, YOU are there" or "Wherever I
look, I see YOU", this concept and philosophy of GOD has been
explained excellently.

Hence, we can see that this usage of the word "TUR" in Turkish has
exploded into the concept of "GOD" and "COSMOS" unexpectedly. Thus,
for example, the Turkish expression: "O TUR GÖK-ATA-TANRI YARATTIGI
HERSEY" meaning "THAT SKY-FATHER-GOD TUR IS EVERYTHING HE CREATED" is
not far from truth. It can be seen that this concept of TUR is a
concept of cosmos, i.e., a gigantic universal concept created by the
ancient Turkish speaking Tur/Turk peoples contrary to all the
deceitful and evil putdowns directed at Turanians saying that they did
not have a civilization of their own.

Of course, since the term "TUR" had such supreme, divine and
unrestricted meanings in their language, then "TUR" people must have
thought that "this is the best name to take on as a name for a nation.
That they have done for the TUR/TURK peoples. Of course, other
groups also took similar names; they took different Turkish
expressions describing the Sky-God as their ethnic names, but all
those titles were in Turkish and frequently in rather distorted forms.


It is interesting to note that Turkish "TUR DAGI" meaning "Tur
Mountain" is what is known in religious writings as "Mount Sinai". It
must be noted that "SINAI" contains the Turkish word "AY" meaning
"Moon" disguised as AI at the end of SINAI. The word "SINAI" is
Turkish expression "SEN-AI" (SEN-AY) meaning "You are the Moon". This
correspondence is extremely important.


In addition to above examples, the word "TUR" (TOR), on its own, has
also the following Turkish connotations as each consonant letter may
be associated with vowels. But before I go into detail, I would like
to cite the following from a reference source as supporting material
for my views given below indicating that I am correct in my
readings.

"Until well into the Christian era it was the practice in writing in
Hebrew text to represent only the consonants. As a result, depending
on which vowels were supplied by the reader, some passages could yield
more than one sense (in English, for example, the three consonents
G.R.T. might be read as GreaT, GreeT, GiRT, Grate, eGReT, GroaT).
About A.D. 600 the manuscripts were supplied with the strokes and
dots, called vowel points, thus fixing the traditional Hebrew reading.
This pointed text, known as the Masoretic text (from the Hebrew word
for tradition), became the standard Hebrew Scriptures." [2]


Note the term "Masoretic" mentioned in this text is nothing but the
Turkish term "MASAR" (MISIR) for the so-called "Ancient Egypt". The
term "Masoretic" is from Turkish "MASARCITI" meaning "in the tradition
of Masar". Thus, the ancient Turkic name "MASAR" has been usurped,
obliterated and replaced by the artificial name "Egypt" meaning
"Gypsy" and with anagrammatized names like "MASORETIC".

Now we continue with the term TUR:

a) "aTa-U-eR" (ATA O ER) meaning "Father is That Man" referring to
the Creator Sky-Father-God and the "father" of a person. That is why
Turs/Turks were ancestor-worshipping people in the past before they
became diverted from their ancient culture.

b) "oT-U-eR" ("OT O ER", "OD O ER") meaning "Fire is That Man"
referring to the Sky-father-God and Sun-God.

c) "uTu-U-R" (UTU-O-ER) meaning "Sun-God is That Man", as in Sumerian
"UTU' the "Sun-God".

d) "oTU-Re" (OTU-RE, OTU-RA) meaning "He is the Sun-God Re/Ra", as in
Masarian Sun-God RE/RA.

e) "öT-U-eR" ("ÖT O ER", "ÖD O ER") meaning "Time is That Man" where
"ÖD/ÖT" is time in ancient Turkish. [3] The Creator Sky-Father-God
and the Sun, Moon and stars were ever present celestial deities for
ancient men. The Creator Sky-Father-God, in creating the universe,
also created "time", thus HE was represented "time" starting from the
beginning of his creation of the universe.

f) 'uT-U-eR" ("UT O ER", "UD O ER") meaning "Bull is That Man". In
ancient Turkish, another word for "bull" was "UT". [4] The Sumerian
word for "bull" or "ox" was "GUD" which is likely to be related to
Turkish phrase "aGa-UT" meaning "Lord Bull". Thus, "UT U ER OGUZ" or
"TUR OGUZ" in ancient Turkish would mean "Bull is That Man Oguz". But
the name OGUZ itself is also homonym with Turkish "OGUZ" (OKUZ) also
meaning "bull". Thus the Turkish expression "TUR OGUZ" is equivalent
to saying: "TUR is BULL" and "OGUZ is BULL". Hence, it is no wonder
that in ancient Turanian Sky-God religion, the "OX" ("OKUZ") was one
of the most prominent animal logos of the Sky-God.

g) "oTU-eR" (OTU ER) meaning "He is the Man", thus connecting the link
between the Sky-God and the Man.

h) "TURa" (TORA", "TÖRE") meaning "the tradition" and "the law".

i) "TURa" ("TURA) meaning "the imperial seal" referring to the
official seals of the ancient Turanian rulers and even the imperial
seal of the Ottoman Sultans.

j) "TURe" ("TUR Ev) meaning "Tur Home", "Tur House". Word "E" in
Sumerian was the same as Turkish word "Ev" meaning "house". Thus the
Sumerian and the Turkish words for "house" are the same. In this
context, the so-called ancient city of "TYRE" of the Phoenicians means
"TUR EV", that is, "Tur House", "Tur Home". Similarly, so too was the
ancient city name "TROY" which is from Turkish "TUR OY" (TUR ÖY)
meaning "Tur House" or "Tur Home". It is most likely that the ancient
Turanians also regarded the MOON (Turkish "AY") as "TUR OY", i.e., "as
a land; as a house; as a home" circling around the earth. Yet, the
"TUR OY" (or "TUR AY") was also regarded as the left "EYE" of the
Sky-God.

k) "uTU-eR" ("UTU-ER", "OTO ER", "OTO MEN", OTOMAN) meaning "Sun-God
worshipping Tur-man." All of these refer to TUR/TURK people, OGUZ
people, OTOMAN (Ottoman or Utuman) people. They all worshipped the
ancient Turanian Sky-God TUR OGUZ.

So, it can be said that TUR is not an ordinary suffix but rather a
very complex, all encompassing "ONE Sky-God" (BIR GÖK TANRI) concept
that includes the whole universe. This is a mind-boggling concept
developed by the ancient Turkish speaking Tur peoples. As it is
known, all of the above given items are the subject of study of all
forms of science such as: theology, cosmology, astronomy,
anthropology, biology, physics, chemistry and many more. Hence, all
of these given above should help to explain how "TUR" becomes
a "concept".

You said:

> I am very interested in the material you present.
>
> Also on Oguz, and Aguz, also in English 'God' probably comes
> from "tell", "news" 'GD' of Ancient Hebrew.


POLAT KAYA: The English term "NEWS" is defined as "1. A report of
recent event; tidings. 2. Matter of interest to newspaper readers".
With W = U + U, and U = Y = V, it is seen that it is a constructed
word. This becomes obvious when it is reconstructed as "NEUUS" which
is made up from "NEU + UUS". This last formation is from Turkish "YENU
AUS" (yeni aguz, yeni söz, yeni haber) meaning "new sayings", "new
talk" which is the definition of "NEWS" as given above. Thus "news"
is an anagram from a Turkish expression.

The English term "TELL" is from Turkish "TIL" (DIL) meaning "tongue",
"language" and "speech". Thus "tell" is an anagram of Turkic "TIL"
(dil).

The term "GD" in Ancient Hebrew seems to be quite nebulous without any
vowel attachments. One wonders how do they determine what vowel
should be used and where?

In my view, the term "GOD" could be constructed from Turkish "aGa OD"
meaning "Lord Fire" referring to the Sun God. It could also have
been constructed from Turkish "aGa UD" meaning "Lord Bull" again
referring to the Sun God. Yet it could also have been constructed
from the Turkish expression "aGa ATa" meaning "Lord Father" referring
to Sky Father God. Additionally, Sumerian "GUD", meaning "bull"
or "OX" (Turkish "OKUS/OGUZ") was the symbol of God in the ancient
Turanian world and therefore is a very likely source for English
term "GOD".

Even the Jewisness of the name HEBREW is suspect. When the name is
reconstructed as "HE-BRE-W", and with W = U + Y, then it becomes the
anagram of Turkish phrase "EHE-BER-UY" ("AGA BIR ÖY") meaning
"Lord-One House" or "One Great House." This Turkish expression "AGA
BIR UY" is very similar to the title that ancient Masarian (so-called
"Egyptian") Pharaohs called their "palace" with the name "PERU" (Pir
uy, Bir öy) and also themselves as "PERU" from Turkish "BIRO". Thus
from the structure of the name "Hebrew", it seems that the "ancient
Hebrew" language was a form of Turkish and the name HEBREW is an
anagram of a Turkish expression.

It is very important to note that the ancient Canaanites and
Phoeniciens were called "HEBREW". However, they were not "Semitic"
people as claimed presently but rather, they were Turkic speaking Tur
peoples.

The Latin word HEBRAEUS is defined as "Hebrew", "Jewish". But the
term "HEBRAEUS", when rearranged as "HE-BER-AUS", is Turkish
expression "AHA BIR AUS" (Aga Bir Oguz) meaning: a) "Lord One OGUS"
referring to the ancient Turanian Sky-God, b) the believers of "Lord
One OGUS", and c) the speakers of "Lord One Language", i.e.,
Turkish "AHA BIR AUS" (Aga Bir Aguz) meaning the Turkish language.
Thus, this title "HEBRAEUS" refers very much to the Turkish speaking
Oguz people and Oguz language rather than to Jews as is wrongfully
claimed.

I have already written considerably about OGUZ - the Turkish name of
the ancient trinity Sky-God of Turanians, and AGUZ the ancient
Turkish word for "mouth" or "language". Evidently, this OGUZ and
AGUZ related "GOD" concept of the ancient Turkish civilization, put
down as "Pagan civilization", has been taken without permission or
giving a reference and then embedded into JOHN 1:1 saying that: "1 In
[the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was a god". 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things
came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one
thing came into existence."

The reason why the "WORD was with GOD" and the "WORD was a GOD" is
because Turkish "AGUZ", meaning WORD, is embedded in Turkish "OGUZ",
meaning GOD, by way of OGUZ and AGUZ being homonyms in Turkish. This
is where this kind of talk in JOHN 1:1 comes from. Of course
without "AGUZ", i.e., the "word" or the "language", nothing could
have been spoken or named - not even God. All would be "lull" and no
civilization would exist as we know. Unquestionably, the Turanian
born OGUZ and AGUZ concept of GOD and WORD (Language) antedated the
concept described in JOHN 1:1 and is one of the gifts of the ancient
TUR/TURK people to humanity.

I trust this essay helps to clear up your questions.


REFERENCES:

[1] Asik Veysal, "Dostlar Beni Hatirlasin", Derleyen Ümit Yasar
Oguzcan, Miyatro yayinlari, 1984, p. 22.

[2] "THE READER'S DIGEST BIBLE" condensed from the revised
standard version of old and new testament" Bruce M. Metzger,
Princeton Theological Seminary, Pleasantville, New York,
1971, p. xiv.

[3] Hüseyin Namik Orkon, "Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu
Yayinlari: 529, Ankara, 1987, p. 825. "öd" ("öt", zaman,
vakit) meaning "time".

[4] Hüseyin Namik Orkon, "Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu
Yayinlari: 529, Ankara, 1987, p. 877. "ut" (öküz)
meaning "OX, bull".


Best wishes to you and all,

Polat Kaya

October 13, 2003


allingus wrote:
>
> ----- Özgün Ileti -----
> Kimden: David L
> Kime: historical_linguistics@yahoogroups.com
> Gönderme tarihi: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:17 AM
> Konu: [htr_ling] -TUR
>
> Is the -tur suffix used as a 'collective'.
>
> anatur "motherhood"? apatur "fatherhood"? I realize it is difficult
> to translate some Turkish grammatical categories into English. May
> be, Polat, you can show how -tur forms a concept from a stem word.
>
> I am very interested in the material you present.
>
> Also on Oguz, and Aguz, also in English 'God' probably comes
> from "tell", "news" 'GD' of Ancient Hebrew.
>
> Dave