Re: [hrl_2] Re:
Turkish-Sumerian kinship" -Vedic Sanskrit to Turanin links- Deivation of
TUR
Dear BVK Sastry and Dear Friends,
Greetings. Please
find my response to BVK Sastry's comments regarding
my previous
posting. My response is in dialogue form.
You said:
> For the time
being keep the hypothesis that Vedic Sanskrit is a
> derived,
fabricated language from sumero tamil as a favorite thought
> presented in
this group. Please look at the presentation from the
> view point-
Vedic Sanskrit is the real proto language from which the
> later
languages could have evolved. And see how Turanin concepts
> come from
Vedic Sanskrit.
POLAT KAYA: Please
note that when I state that the Indo-European and
Semitic languages
were manufactured from Turkish, I do not use
conditional or open
ended terms or phrases such as "could be this,
could be that"
or "may be this or that", etc. I am very direct and
final. In your
statement when you say that "assume that Vedic Sanskrit
is the real proto
language from which the later languages could have
evolved", you
have an open ended statement. Of course it is safer for
you to speak like
that becauese you are guessing it. But when I say
that Turkish is the
father/mother language, I am not guessing because
I have done my
homework properly. Of course what I say is contrary to
all the things
people have been taught in schools and are conditioned
to know.
K. Loganathan put
forward the Sumer and Tamil kinship concept while
disregarding the
Turkish - Sumerian kinsip concept. If you read my
earlier writings
you will find that I have already said that Dravidian
(Tamil, and others)
is a Turanian language and has kinship with
Turkish. This is so
because Turanian languages are sourced from
Turkish. Similarly,
Sumerian is also a Turan language. The term
URAL-ALTAIC, that
supposedly defines and categorizes present day
Central Asian
languages, is deliberately invented so that they can
avoid using the
term TURAN and/or TURKISH. After all, a linguistic
group, whose
languages have been manufactured from Turkish, would try
all kinds of
sophistry to avoid the use of Turkish, Tur, and/or Turan
in classifying
languages.
Additionally, even
when you say that: "Please look at the presentation
from the
view point- Vedic
Sanskrit is the real proto language from which the
later languages
could have evolved. And see how Turanin concepts come
from Vedic
Sanskrit" is simply a loaded assumption that is prealigned
with the
establishment's view that many languages are derived from
Sanskrit, and hence
Turkish may also be derived from it. But this is
not so and I will
demonstrate as I go through your comments that it is
not so. In fact it
is the other way around. If you know Turkish you
will follow what I
am saying much more readily.
First let me
explain the following: Both in Turkish and Sumerian, the
syllabary of the
language consists of basic syllables made up as
"vowel-consonant",
"consonant-vowel" and "consonant-vowel-consonant"
morphemes. For
example, Turkish TUR, TIR, TÜR are in the latest group;
but TR or TRU
(i.e., consonant-consonant or
consonant-consonant-vowel),
as found in Indo-European languages, are
not in any one of
these syllable groups. Yet when the speakers of
Indo-European
languages vocalize the TR or TRU, they are really
vocalizing an
implicit vowel between the consonants. In other words,
Indo-European
speakers are vocalizing these abnormal phonemes (e.g.,
TR or TRU) in the
form of Turkish TAR, TER, TIR, TiR, TOR, TÖR, TUR or
TÜR without
admitting consciously that they are. If they are going to
vocalize such
phonemes in that manner, why don't they write it
phonetically - as
in Turkish? Or are we all being conned? Even the
TRU, as in your
example "SAVITRU", is a broken up and distorted form
of Turkish TUR. If
they insist that TR or TRU is a true syllable, then
there is a con game
going on. All Indo-European languages use TR
frequently rather
than TUR/TIR/TÜR - which are all Turkish.
The Turkish word
TUR has the following meanings:
a) TUR is one name
for the ancient Turanian Sky-God which has many
names. In this
regard TUR has the subtle but extremely important
philosophy that is
not readily evident. TUR refers to the universal
creator
Sky-Father-God, Sun-God and Moon-God of ancient Tur/Turk
peoples. Thus when
we say, for example, "OT-TUR", on the surface, we
are saying a)
"it is Grass", or b) "it is fire". the fire are
"GOD".
But in a subtle
sense embedded in this omnipotent philosophy of life
is the
understanding that God "TUR" is in everything and is
everywhere. Thus,
when we say "OT-TUR" in Turkish, we would also mean
"God is
grass", or "God is fire". This is the most fantastic aspect of
the Turkish
language and the life philosophy that it represents and
expresses. In this
example, Turkish "OT" means "grass" and "OT" (OD)
also means
"fire"., "TUR" means "it is", by itself,
expressed as
"OTUR" or
"O TUR".
b) TUR is also one
of the ethnic names of TUR/TURK peoples. Some other
ancient ethnic
names are UZ, OZ, GUZ, or OGUZ. That is why OGUZ men
are called TURS
and/or TURKS and their language is called "Turkish".
c) TUR is a very
prominent suffix in Turkish which is used at the end
of all Turkish
expressions defining a concept. For example. when we
say
"GELMISTUR" meaning "He has come", the suffix
"TUR" finishes the
phrase. When we say
"OKULTUR" (OKULDUR) the phrase has the elements of
"OKUL"
meaning "school" and "TUR" meaning "it is". Thus
the Turkish
composite word
"OKULTUR" means "it is school". This simple phrase
defines in a very
definite sense the concept that we are talking
about. It clearly
answers, for example, the question of "What is this?".
I do not wish to
sound like a religious "priest", but in Turkish
religious culture
and understanding of life, the concept of GOD
presents itself in
everything whether the thing is a "flower, a seed,
a fly, a dung
beetle, an ox or a man or an atom or a galaxy. One finds
the concept of
"GOD" in all of its creations. It is in the ATOM, in
the Galaxy, in the
ATAM (my father, my ancestor) and ADAM (man, my
father, my ancestor).
In the ancient Turanian Sky-God concept, God
and Man are
parallel concepts. That is why they say "God created man
in his own
image".
After having noted
these, now using your own examples I will
demonstrate that
even your examples are made up from Turkish, not the
other way around as
you suppose.
You wrote:
>
> Bhraatru
(Brother) --> bhraa- tur ( belongs to the brother)
POLAT KAYA: Your
"BHRAATRU" (< "BHR-AA-TRU") meaning "brother"
is
actually a
distorted form of the Turkish expression "BIR AA TUR" (Bir
Aga Tur) meaning
"he is a lord". Turks call their elder brother as
"AGA-BEY"
or "AGAM" meaning "my lord", "my elder".
Additionally,
"BHRAATRU",
when rearranged letter-by-letter as "BHR-ATA-RU", is the
restructured and
disguised Turkish expression "BIR-ATA ERU" (Bir-ata
eri) meaning
"man from same father". "Brothers" always have the same
"father"
and they are modelled after "BIR-ATA" ("one father")
so-called
"PROTO". Thus your example of "BHRAATRU" has actually been
made up from a
Turkish expression. It is not the other way around as
you implied.
You wrote:
>
> Pitru (Father)
--> Pi-tur (belongs to father)
POLAT KAYA: The
term PITRU is another form of Indo-European words such
as PADRE, PATER,
PEDER, PUTRA, FATHER, etc. meaning "father". All of
these are actually
different forms of the Turkish phrase "APATUR"
meaning "he is
father". This Turkish expression defines the meaning of
these words in
Turkish as being the words for the concept of "father".
In the Turkish
expression "APATUR", "APA" means "father" and
"TUR"
means
"he/she/it is".
But it is
interesting to note that in these so-called Indo-European
words, not only
Turkish word "APA" has been distorted into syllables
such as "PI,
PA, PE, PU and even FA, but also the basic Turkish root
word
"TUR" has been distorted and disguised into -TRU, -DRE, -TER,
-DER, -TRA and
-THER so that it is not recognized as "Turkish"
anymore. Is this
coincidence? Of course not. We have this exact
correspondence
because so-called PITRU" is made up from Turkish
"APATUR" but
it has been disguised to make it appear as if it belonged
to a language that
was totally different than the Turkish language.
Yet the difference
in appearance has been artificially created. The
proponents of this
picture portray "Sanskrit" as if it is the original
and authentic
language - which it was not.
Additionally, if
PITRU is actually from "PITUR", why don't they write
it the way it
should be written, that is, "PITUR" rather than PITRU"?
They do not write
it that way because it would make Sanskrit, or
others so-called
"languages derived from it", look very Turkish-like.
Obviously they do
not want that picture to come out, because they were
originally usurped
from Turkish. They would not turn back and admit
that they
manufactured it from Turkish now -would they? Thus there
has been a deep
rooted language alteration activity perpetrated since
ancient times.
Incidently, all
versions of PITRU in so-called Indo-European languages
are made up from
Turkish APATUR including the English term "FATHER".
They have all been
anagrammatized from Turkish.
You wrote:
>
> Maatru
(mother) --> maa-tur ( belongs to mother)
POLAT KAYA; The
example of MAATRU meaning "mother" is also an
anagrammatized word
from Turkish. "MAATRU" when rearranged
letter-by-letter as
"AMATUR" is the Turkish expression "AMATUR" or
"ANATUR"
both meaning "she is mother". Turkish "AMATUR" is also
related to Turkish
"MEMETUR" (MEMEDIR) meaning "she is breast" which
obviously is the
child and mother relationship. Thus your example of
MAATRU meaning
"mother" is a word made up from Turkish but disguised
to make it look
like it comes from a different language.
Similarly, all
versions of MAATRU appearing in Indo-European languages
are made up from
Turkish expressions. In other words, Turkish has not
been derived from
Sanskrit or any other language as claimed. It is
the other way
around. And this is non-debateable.
You said:
> Suggested
derivation in relation to the word of 'TUR' from SAVITRU:
>
> Take the vedic
name 'Savitru' meaning one of the forms of the Supreme
> Deity, Sun
God, The grammatically derived forms of this leads to the
> expressions -
'sa-vi-tur' in the famous Gayatri mantra found in the
> Vedas.
Generally any Ru ending noun when processed according to the
> sanskrit
grammar gets the final form 'tur' in some of the case forms. "
POLAT KAYA: First
of all the term TUR has not been derived from
SAVITRU, as you
imply, but rather it is SAVITRU that has been derived
from TUR with the
attached embellishment of SAVI. The term SAVITRU
meaning the Supreme
Deity, Sun-God is also very revealing. The term
SAVITRU is a
composite word which includes the suffix TRU which is the
distorted Turkish
word TUR., and the word SAVITRU in actuality gets
the final form of
SAVITUR as you clearly point out. Thus, as I
explained above,
The Turkish word TUR is the name not only for the
Supreme Creator
Sky-Deity, but also is the Sun-God and also the
Moon-God.
The Turkish
language basically is a monosyllabic language in which
much larger expressions
are made up by joining together many smaller
root words, used as
suffixes and infixes. Composite objects are made
up with smaller
basic building blocks. Similarly, it is resonable to
think that
mono-syllabic languages would be developed much earlier
than the composite
languages such as the Sanskrit. Hence Turkish is a
much earlier
developed language than Sanskrit or any other languge
regarded as being
derived from Sanskrit.
Therefore the
composite vedic sanskrit word "SAVITRU" could not be
taken as the base,
as you suggested. I suggest that SAVITRU is a word
made up from the
smaller words "SAVI + TUR". In its structure it
carries the Turkish
word TUR and SAVI most likely is the Turkish word
"SAVI"
(SEVI) from Turkish verb "sevmek" meaning "to love". Thus
"SEVITUR"
(SAVITUR) would mean "He who is loved", as well as "He who
loves".
Religiously the Supreme Deity, (i.e., God) has always been
loved by people.
"Love" is the essence of being "close" to God or is
the basis of
believing in God. Thus Vedic SAVITRU is very much an
anagrammatized
Turkish expression contrary to advocated false
assumptions. In
this word Turkish TUR is one of the building blocks
included in it in a
distorted form, and "SAVI" in "SAVITRU" is just an
embellishment to
cover up the Turkish word TUR, the name of the
ancient Turanian
Supreme deity.
I would also like
to add, after noting your explanation of "RU", it is
not the RU suffix
that would be related to Turkish TUR but rather the
TRU suffix that is
related to TUR. But TRU is a distorted form of
Turkish TUR.
Additionally, similar Vedas terms like GAYATRI and MANTRA
found in the Vedas
texts carry the Turkish stamp TUR, TIR, TAR, TER,
etc. in the
distorted forms of TRU, TRI, TRA, TRE, etc.. Reducing
them into RU, RI or
RA is just a coverup of the fact that they were
anagrammatized from
Turkish TUR.
The other God name
that I wanted to bring to the attention of readers
is the name BRAHMA
PUTRA. The name BRAHMA is described as: "Hindu
Religion. 1. Also
BRAHMAN, [Sanskrit BRAHMAN, prayer, impersonal
spirit.] The
supreme soul or essence of the universe, immaterial,
uncreated,
illimitable, timeless, often described as being
intelligence, and
bliss". [1]
The name
"BRAHMA PUTRA", when rearranged letter-by-letter as
"BR-AHAM-AP-TUR"
and read phonetically as in Turkish, is the Turkish
expression
"BIR AGAM APA TUR" meaning "My Lord is Father TUR". This
describes the
ancient Turanian creator Sky-God with a Turkish
expression that has
been made up with basic Turkish root words. God
is an APA (ATA),
that is, "father" figure because God is the creator.
It is clearly seen
that "BRAHMA PUTRA" is a personification of the
creator Sky-God -
described in Turkish but disguised by alteration.
There is another
name similar to the name of "BRAHMA", that is, the
name of
"ABRAHAM" a "Semitic" name. This name is also made up from
Turkish expression
"BIR AHAM" (BIR AGAM) meaning "My One Lord" which
describes the
ancient Turanian One Sky-God concept. Thus presenting
"ABRAHAM"
as a real person travelling here and there and leading a
people out of the
Sumerian city of UR is fiction. This name also has
been used as the
founding block of a cult operated as religion.
"Cults"
are religious establishments in which only few operating
persons know the
real truth about the true nature of the cult, and the
rest of the
followers are consciously kept in the dark. As it is seen,
the name
"ABRAHAM" is also a personification of the ancient Turanian
Sky-God and its
origin is also Turkish. Turkish "BIR-AGA" (One Lord),
"BIR
TENGRI" (One God), "BIR-O" (One Him) all refer to the very
ancient "ONE
GOD" Sky-God concept. In this concept, creator
Sky-Father-God is
ONE, the Sun-God is ONE and the Moon-God is ONE.
Additionally the
Sun and the Moon are regarded as the eyes of the
"creator One
Father God". This ancient "trinity" concept has also been
personified as
"three heads in one body" by ancient Turanians.
I would also like
to bring to the attention of readers another Indian
name for God which
is the Indian Elephant-God called GANESHA - the
most popular
zoomorphic Hindu Deity.
The URL below gives
the following description:
http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa083000a.htm
"The Lord of
Success The son of Shiva and Parvati, Ganesha has an
elephantine
countenance with a curved trunk and big ears, and a huge
pot-bellied body of
a human being. He is the Lord of success and
destroyer of evils
and obstacles. He is also worshipped the god of
education,
knowledge, wisdom and wealth. In fact, Ganesha is one of
the five prime
Hindu deities (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva and Durga being
the other four)
whose idolatry is glorified as the panchayatana puja.
Ganesh Chaturthi
The devotees of Ganesha are known as 'Ganapatyas',
and the festival to
celebrate and glorify him is called Ganesh Chaturthi."
Of course this
Indian Supreme Deity name "GANESHA" is another form of
the Turkish name
"GUNESH" meaning "Sun". Thus the Elephant-God GANESHA
is also a
personification of the Sun, that is, the ancient Turanian
Sun-God. The name
GANESHA also represents the following concepts as
the Turkish GUNESH
does:
a)
"GÜNESH" meaning "sun";
b)
"GÜNISHI" meaning "sunlight" which illuminates the earth.
The
opposite of
sunlight is "black" (KARA in Turkish) or darkness - which
is the colour of
evil. Hence sunlight, being the opposite of black or
darkness,
represents goodness. Sunlight removes darkness and brings
goodness to people
and hence fights evil - metaphorically.
c)
"GÜNISI" meaning "sunwarmth", that is, the heat of the sun
which
warms up the earth;
d)
"GANISH" (KANISH) meaning "understanding, wisdom". Without
the sun
and its light,
understanding of things would not be possible. Black is
not conducive to
goodness of learning, understanding or wisdom.
e)
"GONUSH" (KONUSH) meaning "word, speech, language" without
which no
human civilization
as we know it would be possible. After all, JOHN 1
says: "In the
beginning the WORD was, and the WORD was with GOD, and
the Word was a god.
This one was in [the] beginning with God".
This Biblical
statement is a description of the ancient Turanian God
OGUZ and his
language, that is, "AGUZ" (SÖZ) meaning "mouth, word,
speech and
language" without referring to it. Referring to the name
OGUZ would be an
admission that they got their religious understanding
and knowledge from
Oguz. They preferred to stay mum on it. Yet the
implication of this
Biblical statement is that first there was the God
OGUZ and with him
there was the first language (AGUZ), that is,
"OGUZCA"
in Turkish, i.e., "TURCA/TÜRKÇE" the TURKISH language. OGUZ
is also the name of
the ancestors of the TUR/TURK peoples. Thus it is
also the ethnic
name of TUR/TURKS. This Biblical statement puts all
other languages
after the TUR/TURK (OGUZ) language implying that other
languages have been
madeup from Turkish contrary all the "scholarly" verbosity.
This is also
verified by the Latin word "DEUS" means "God". With this
name for
"God" is also the Turkish word "DEUSh" (DEYISh) meaning
"word, speech,
language". Similarly, the Greek word "THEOS" means
"God".
But this name also has embedded in it the Turkish word "TEUSH"
(deush, deyish)
meaning "word, speech, language". DEO also means
"God". Bu
"DEO" is also the Turkish "DE O" meaning "it is
Word", "it
is what we
say", i.e., "speech". The root these Indo-European "God
names comes from
the Turkish word DE/TE meaning "speak" comes from
Turkish verb
"demek" meaning "to speak". Again we find the Turkish
word
"DE/TE" meaning "word" associated with all of these
Indo-European
names for God. This
again shows that Turkish was the first language
associated with the
name of God in the beginning. All other languages
were derived
thereafter.
The Indian God
Ganesha is said to have other important names as well.
One of them is
GANAPATI meaning "lord of the people".
The name GANAPATI
is very much the Turkish expression "GUN APATI" (gün
babadi, gün atadi)
meaning "Sun is father" or "He is Sun-Father". This
again identifies
GANESHA with the Turkish GUNESH, that is, the "SUN".
This correspondence
could not be due to coincidence. Evidently joining
the words of the
Turkish expressions together to make words for
Sanskrit has been a
very widely used technic also. It becomes clear
that this form of
manufacturing words for Sanskrit from Turkish
language has been
used for a long time as it has also been done so by
the Semites and
Europeans.
It is said that the
Indian GANESHA had the mother named "PARVATI". The
term PARVATI when
viewed as "P-ARVAT-I", has embedded in it the
Turkish word
"ARVAT" meaning "woman, wife, mother". Additionally,
Turkish expression
"aPa-ARVATI" means "father's wife" which is again
"mother".
Thus again we find the presence of Turkish words in this
important Indian
word.
Now you will note
that the core word "ARVAT" which is Turkish has been
"elegantly
wrapped", as you put it, with "P" and "I" in the Indian
word
"PARVATI" which hides the main word ARVAT and makes it not
recognizable as
Turkish. In other words, the Turkish word ARVAT has
been disguised in
the word PARVATI because of the "wrapping" that
occurs in Sanskrit
as you pointed out.
It is curious that
one of the Indian representations of GANESHA is
shown as an
elephantine person in the center surrounded with two women
and the picture is
put between the horns of a "bull". Although GANESHA
is pictured as
"elephantine" but portraying him between the horns of a
"bull" is
very meaningful. Is this a coincidence? Of course not. It
is represented so
because its source is the ancient Turanian Sky-God
OGUZ, and OGUZ was
represented with the "bull" icon, because it rhymed
with the Turkish
name OKUZ meaning "ox, bull", and similarly the name
TUR is in "UT-U-ER"
again meaning "bull, cattle". UTU was the name of
Sun-God in Sumerian.
I may also add here
that this ancient Turanian concept will also
explain why
"cattle" was sacred in India, particularly the "white"
and/or
"white-spotted" cattle. It is because the ancient Indian
religion was the
ancient Turanian OGUZ religion.
The term
"ZOOMORPHISM" is defined as: "1. The representation of God,
or of gods, in the
form, or with the attributes, of the lower animals.
2. Use of animal
forms in art or symbolism. - ZOOMORPHIC." [2]
But even the name
ZOOMORPHISM, when rearranged letter-by-letter as
"MOR-OOZ-P-ISMH"
where "H" is actually an "I", is the Turkish
expression
"ISMI MOR OGUZ aPa" meaning "his name is Purple OGUZ
Father"
referring to the Turkish Sky God OGUZ, His logo "OKUZ" (ox,
bull) and
"AGUZ" the "mouth" which speaks. It should be noted here
that the Turkish
word OGUZ, which not only identifies the ancient Sky
God OGUZ but also
identifies the Turkish people themselves, also
contains the
Turkish word OKUZ which was the ancient bull icon of Sky
God OGUZ and
additionally contains the Turkish word AGUZ meaning
MOUTH, WORD,
LANGUAGE or SPEECH - which was God and was with God.
Another important
cultural concept that is embedded in OGUZ is the
Turkish term AG-UZ
(AK-YUZ) meaning "white-face". Sun and Full Moon
are "white
faces. Additionally the Turkic peoples are white-faced
peoples. This is
probably one reason that ancient Turanian TUR/TURK
peoples generally
shaved their faces - in general while some others
kept a bearded face.
These are not
coincidences. They show that there has been a very
conscious and
conning changeover from a Turanian Turkish speaking
world into a
totally confused and muddled up world.
Thus again we see
that all Sky-God concepts in various languages are
woven around the
Turkish names of the ancient Turanian Sky-God TUR
and OGUZ concepts.
This is so because Turanian civilization was the
first in the world.
You said:
>
> The word
'pitruka' can be derived from the word 'pitur' meaning
> ancestor
worshippers;
POLAT KAYA: Yes
indeed Turkish "APATUR" also means "Grand father" and
thus
"ancestor". TURKs are known for "ancestor worshipping"
throughout
their history.
Erecting a tall monolith as a tombstone for their
ancestors is one
ancient way of honoring their forefathers forever;
and this is a
Tur/Turk tradion originating from TURAN. The stone
monuments standing
up at the tombs of ancient peoples spread
throughout Asia and
Europe are the remnants of Turanian Tur/Turk
peoples. The
Turkish word "TURAN" (DURAN) also has the meaning of
"that which
stands up" which is a very clear cut definition of the
ancient Turanian
tomb-stones which honour their forefathers. The
remnants of this
ancient Tur/Turk traditon is all over the world still
standing up as
giant monoliths.
You may be
interested to know that the English term "ANCESTOR" is also
an anagram of the
Turkish expression "ONCE TURUS" (önce Turuz) meaning
"we are
previous Turs" which of course defines the ancestors of
Tur/Turk peoples.
Thus you see my friend what you see on the surface
is not necessarily
the representation of "truth" as this English word
clearly
demonstrates. That is why I say that all Indo-European and
Semitic languages
have been manufactured from Turkish as the source
language for them
all. We have all been conned very cleverly by some
cabalistic linguist
priests.
You also wrote:
> The language
identity of these groups may have been carried the stamp
> of the 'tur'
and 'ka' in their original form; and in the anglicized
> forms, the
word 'turkihsh' for this language might have come in to
> practical
usage.
>
POLAT KAYA: Your
statement is not clearly written. If I understand
you correctly, you
seem to be implying that TUR, KA and TURKISH were
derived from
Sanskrit. Yet I have been showing you that the opposite
is true.
You said:
> The religious
beliefs and the way the relation between the supreme
> deity and the
humans are conceived in these groups in the above
> relations is a
point for further study.
>
> To support
this view I draw attention to Polkat Kayas post quote (2)
> placed below.
> To get at the
form of Turanian language, I place one
> more
alternative derivation route, which again is linked to the
> famous Gayatri
mantra in the Vedas. Gayari mantra has the following
> two words in
conjunction 'savitur- varenyam'. The word 'Varenyam' in
> gayatri mantra
in vedic sanskrit means 'noblest, desirable, great',
> best'. The
total meaning of the word 'savitur- varenyam' is
> the 'noblest,
desirable, great', best related to sun god called
> savitru'.
POLAT KAYA: These
meanings you list are attributions of the SUN-GOD.
Additionally, the
term "VARENYAM", when rearranged letter-by-letter as
"NAR-V-AYEM",
is a restructured and distorted form of the Turkish
expression
"NAR VE AYEM" meaning "I am Fire and Moon"; or
"AY-V-NAREM",
is a restructured and distorted form of the Turkish
expression "AY
VE NAREM" meaning "I am Moon and Fire". In both case,
these Turkish
expressions refer to the ancient Turanian Sun-God and
Moon-God"
which are noblest, desirable and great.
In this light, we
have a meaning in Turkish for the Sanskrit
expression
"SAVITRU-VARENYAM" or "SAVITUR-VARENYAM". This composite
expression, when
rearranged as "SAVI-TUR-NAR-V-AYEM", is the Turkish
expression
"SEVI TUR NAR VE AYIM" meaning "I am your beloved TUR the
Fire and Moon"
which refers to the Sun-God and Moon-God. Similarly, if
we rearranged the
expression as "SAVI-TUR-AY-V-NAREM", it is the
Turkish expression
"SEVI TUR AY-VE-NARIM" meaning "I am your beloved
TUR the Moon and
Sun" which is exactly the meaning of the name TUR
given to the
ancient Turanian Sky-God.
You said:
In the same post
Polkat Kaya says 'Tur' means Gods name
> with solar
emphasis. From the word 'savitur-varenyam' through the
> dropping of
the first and last units of letters leads to '(sa)(vi)
> (tur)-
(va)(re)(nyam)' the resultant form is ' (tur)-(re)(nyam)'.
> >From this
through the deformed usage the resultant language
> identity of
'tu-ren' might have resulted.
POLAT KAYA: I have
already shown above how "SEVITRU-VARENYAM" was
organized from
Turkish expression which invalidates your explanation.
Your last paragraph
is also very revealing.
You said:
> This suggested
dropping of
> the initial
letters and last letters is a technical sanskrit process
> called
'anu-bandha-karana'. It means consciously wrapping the
> required word
on the left and right with additional phoneme units
> for protection
of the inner core word. This is NOT arbitrary
> linguistic
process. This derivation has the elegance of linking the
> meaning of the
vedic word and tradition in the derived language
> without any
difficulty.
POLAT KAYA: This is
most enlightening with respect to Sanskrit and
how it makes up
words for itself by "consciously dropping of the
initial letters and
last letters and also wrapping the required word
on the left and
right with additional phoneme units". This action is a
disguising
technique, by another word, "anagrammatizing". This
Sanskrit process of
"consciously wrapping the required word on the
left and right with
additional phoneme units for protection of the
inner core
word" is not so innocent as you portray it. Its purpose is
not to
"protect the core word" or to generate "elegance" but
rather to
restructure and
disguise the Turkish words and phrases. Sanskrit
PARVATI is a good
example where Turkish ARVAT has been wrapped with a
P on its left and
an I on its right. The resulting Sanskrit word
PARVATI does not
look Turkish any more. Evidently Turkish words and/or
expressions have
been altered by this method in order to come up with
Sanskrit looking
words for all languages that are claimed to be
derived from
Sanskrit. Similarly the process of "dropping of the
initial and final
letters" is also obliterates the source text.
Further on in your
paragraph, you have given us the Sanskrit term
called
'anu-bandha-karana' describing this linguistic action in
Sanskrit. But this
process called 'anu-bandha-karana' is nothing but a
form of the
Greek/English term "anagrammatize". It is amazing to see
how much
correspondence the term "ANU-BANDHA-KARANA" has with the
English word
"ANA-GRAMMA-TIZE".
The Greek/English
term "ANAGRAMMATIZE", when deciphered
letter-by-letter as
"ANA-GARMA-TIZME" is the restructured and
disguised form of
the Turkish expression "ONU GIRMA TIZME" (Onu kirma
dizme) meaning
"breaking and restructuring it".
Similarly, the
Sanskrit expression "ANU-BANDHA-KARANA", when
rearranged as
"ANU-KARAN-BANDHA", where H is an "I", is similar to the
Turkish expression
"ONU-KIRIN-VE-BEND" meaning "break it and reattach
it" implying
that the original text is first broken and then
restructured. This
is the process of "anagrammatizing" Turkish words
and phrases that I
have been talking about. This revelation by you
supports me
completely when I say that the Indo-European and Semitic
languages are
manufactured from Turkish words and phrases but
disguised to hide
this fact. For example in this anagram, compare the
following with each
other:
Sanskrit ANU versus
Turkish ONU meaning "it";
Sanskrit BANDHA
versus Turkish BEND (baglamak, dizmek, bend etmek,
eklemek) meaning
"to tie, to attach, to fasten as in the links of a
chain"; and
Sanskrit KARANA
versus Turkish KIRIN meaning "you break".
These
correspondences cannot be due to coincidence.
You also wrote:
> This view
point gets additional support from
> the quote 4,
where in the meaning of the word is referred to as
> 'Bull'. The
alluding of the Cow and bull in relation to the divine
> speech is a
popular metaphor in Vedic sanskrit. And the word 'Go'(
> =cow), 'Vak'
(=speech), 'Vrushabha'(=bull) are linked sacred
> concepts in
Vedic tradition. Fire God Agni is represented with
> the 'Bull'
just as Shiva is represented.
POLAT KAYA: The
name AGNI being "Fire God" is also interesting. AGNI
suspiciousely looks
like an anagram of Turkish phrase "GIN O" (GÜN O
or O GÜN) meaning
"it is Sun". Of course in ancient Turanian
traditions, the Sun
(OGUZ or TUR) has been represented with the "bull"
icon. Having these
concepts present in Indian religious texts, is
another evidence
that the ancient India was a land where the ancient
Turanian sky-God
religion was widely worshipped. It is no wonder that
INDIA is also
called by the Turkish name HINDUSTAN. This is not a
coincidence.
Based on your
writing, K. Loganathan, by misjudgement, countered me by
the fallacious
conclusion that you also think Turkish is derived from
Sanskrit. Of course
that is not the case at all. It is the other way around.
And finally, just
as a reminder, I wish to bring to your attention the
following misprint
where you wrote:
> To support
this view I draw attention to Polkat Kayas post quote (2)
> placed below.
Please note that my
name is POLAT KAYA, not "POLKAT KAYAS" as you have
written. Thank you.
REFERENCES:
[1] Webster's
Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition, 1947, p. 122.
[2] Webster's
Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition, 1947, p. 1174.
Best wishes to you
and to all,
Polat Kaya
07/01/2005
The reader is
cordially invited to visit Polat Kaya Library for other
writings at URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Polat_Kaya/
Kamil KARTAL wrote:
>
> From:
"K.Loganathan" <ulagankmy@y...>
> Date: Thu Dec
30, 2004 5:43 pm
> Subject: Fwd:
Turkish-Sumerian kinship" -Vedic Sanskrit to Turanin
> links-
Deivation of TUR
>
>
>
> ----------
Forwarded message ----------
> From: BVK
Sastry
> Date: Thu, 30
Dec 2004 12:27:25 -0500
> Subject:
Turkish-Sumerian kinship" -Vedic Sanskrit to Turanin links-
> Deivation of
TUR
> To:
"'Polat Kaya'" <t...@C...>, <bharatv...@yahoogroups.com>,
>
<tolkaappiyar@googlegroups.com>
>
> Namaste,
>
> With reference
to the interesting post of Polat Kaya and specifically
> the two
extracts below, I place the following observations and leads
> for further
suggestions:
>
> For the time
being keep the hypothesis that Vedic Sanskrit is a
> derived,
fabricated language from sumero tamil as a favorite thought
> presented in
this group. Please look at the presentation from the
> view point-
Vedic Sanskrit is the real proto language from which the
> later
languages could have evolved. And see how Turanin concepts
> come from
Vedic Sanskrit. Unless one goes to positively establish
> that turanin
is the source of vedic sanskrit vocabulary, grammar and
> concepts, the
alternative presented here is the line of exploration.
> The support
for this is the movement of the languages from Bharat-->
> central
asia--> outbound countries and cultures. The effort to
> systemiacally
derive the Vedic Sanskrit--> Turanina/Turk--> akkadian-
> -> Sumerian
languges on the lines of 'an-grmmativcal approach' which
> is technically
called the 'anubandha' approach in Sanskrit with well
> defined rules
and process need to be explored.
>
> QUOTES FOR
POLAT KAYA:
>
> <Evidently
the name TUR and its derivatives were suppressed so badly
> that they and
many other Turkish words had no chance of being read
> and recognized
as Turkish.>
>
> <All of
these references and the footnote by C. J. Gadd point to
> MARDUK as an
artificially generated name designed as a replacement
> for the
Turkish name TUR or TURDUK. It is like replacing one
> person's name,
say ABC, with another name, say XYZ, and thus
> completely
erasing ABC from the records. Clearly this has taken
> place by this
fraudulent changeover.>
>
> Suggested
derivation in relation to the word of 'TUR' from SAVITRU:
>
> Take the vedic
name 'Savitru' meaning one of the forms of the Supreme
> Deity, Sun
God, The grammatically derived forms of this leads to the
> expressions -
'sa-vi-tur' in the famous Gayatri mantra found in the
> Vedas.
Generally any Ru ending noun when processed according to the
> sanskrit
grammar gets the final form 'tur' in some of the case forms.
>
> Example:
>
> Bhraatru
(Brother) --> bhraa- tur ( belongs to the brother)
>
> Pitru (Father)
--> Pi-tur (belongs to father)
>
> Maatru
(mother) --> maa-tur ( belongs to mother)
>
> There are also
affixes 'shatur'and 'Trun' which are added to the
> verbal bases
in the meaning of 'presently related to, continuously
> associated
with'. The resultant phonetic transformations yielding a
> technical
noun, ready for further processing do not explicitly point
> to the
presence of this affix and related processing, unless one
> looks for it.
The multiple processing's allowed in sanskrit to
> derive
extended words and meanings allows adding of the 'ka' as
> another affix
after this process.
>
> Thus if the
vedic sanskrit word 'savtitru' is taken as the base, the
> form
'savitruka' to mean related to sun deity, worshippers of sun
> deity can be
derived without any difficulty.
>
> The word
'pitruka' can be derived from the word 'pitur' meaning
> ancestor
worshippers;
>
> The word
maatruka can be derived from 'maatru', meaning mother
> worshippers,
mother goddess worshippers, female goddess worshippers;
> The word
bhraatruka' from bhraatru meaning who worship brothers;
>
> With these
words pitruka, maatruka, bhrratruka,savitruka, if we
> understand the
communities which forged their relation with divinity
> in different
formats, the religious identity is clearly established.
>
> The language
identity of these groups may have been carried the stamp
> of the 'tur'
and 'ka' in their original form; and in the anglicized
> forms, the
word 'turkihsh' for this language might have come in to
> practical
usage.
>
> The religious
beliefs and the way the relation between the supreme
> deity and the
humans are conceived in these groups in the above
> relations is a
point for further study.
>
> To support
this view I draw attention to Polkat Kayas post quote (2)
> placed below.
To get at the form of Turanian language, I place one
> more
alternative derivation route, which again is linked to the
> famous Gayatri
mantra in the Vedas. Gayari mantra has the following
> two words in
conjunction 'savitur- varenyam'. The word 'Varenyam' in
> gayatri mantra
in vedic sanskrit means 'noblest, desirable, great',
> best'. The
total meaning of the word 'savitur- varenyam' is
> the 'noblest,
desirable, great', best related to Sun God called
> Savitru'. In
the same post Polkat Kaya says 'Tur' means Gods name
> with solar
emphasis. From the word 'savitur-varenyam' through the
> dropping of
the first and last units of letters leads to '(sa)(vi)
> (tur)-
(va)(re)(nyam)' the resultant form is ' (tur)-(re)(nyam)'.
> >From this
through the deformed usage the resultant language
> identity of
'tu-ren' might have resulted. This suggested dropping of
> the initial
letters and last letters is a technical sanskrit process
> called
'anu-bandha-karana'. It means consciously wrapping the
> required word
on the left and right with additional phoneme units
> for protection
of the inner core word. This is NOT arbitrary
> linguistic
process. This derivation has the elegance of linking the
> meaning of the
vedic word and tradition in the derived language
> without any
difficulty. This view point gets additional support from
> the quote 4,
where in the meaning of the word is referred to as
> 'Bull'. The
alluding of the Cow and bull in relation to the divine
> speech is a
popular metaphor in Vedic sanskrit. And the word 'Go'(
> =cow), 'Vak'
(=speech), 'Vrushabha'(=bull) are linked sacred
> concepts in
Vedic tradition. Fire God Agni is represented with
> the 'Bull'
just as Shiva is represented.
>
> Regards.
>
> BVK Sastry
>
> Quote -1-
>
> About the name
TUR:
>
> The Turkic
name TUR or Turk does not appear in Sumerian writings. But
> this
appearance is rather false. The name TUR has been suppressed in
> reading
Sumerian texts. We have the evidence for this suppression.
> One very
important footnote regarding the name TUR has been
> preserved for
us by C. J. Gadd. He writes: [2] in footnote III.
> 1: "TUR
is read "mar" in the name of this god".
>
> Here he openly
says that the term "MAR" is actually the name "TUR"
> of a god, but
somehow, due to some "arbitrary convention", TUR is
> not read as
TUR but is read as MAR. I am grateful to C. J. Gadd for
> writing this
footnote. I must add here that the Turkish word TUR has
> been read as
MAR and/or AMAR in the reading of the Sumerian texts.
>
> This reading
of course obliterates totally the name TUR from
> translated
texts.
>
> Quote 2----
>
>
"DINGIR.LUGAL-TUR-DA-DINGIR-RA-NI-IR" and the new English translation
> should have
been "To Lugal TUR-ADA, his god" which I will compare
> with the
following Turkish expression:
>
>
"TENGIR.ULU aGa-AL TUR ATA, TENGIR-ER ER-IN" meaning "God, the
Great
> Lord Red TUR
Father, The God-Man of man" which refers to the ancient
> Turanian
Sky-God Sun-God TUR from which the names Tur, Turk, Turan
> and Turkish
come from. When we compare these two expressions side by
> side we get
the following picture:
>
> Sumerian:
"DINGIR.LUGAL-TUR-DA-DINGIR-RA-NI-IR"
>
> Turkish:
"TENGIR.uLU aGa-AL TUR ADA (ATA), TENGIR-ER ER-IN"
>
> where the last
suffix IN (UN) is the Turkish suffix for 3rd person
> singular
possessive on nouns.
>
> Quote -3-
>
> The Turkish
name TUR is also a personification of "bull". In ancient
> Turkish
"UT" means "cattle". [3] "UTU-ER" means
"male cattle", that
> is, the
"bull". But it is also Turkish "UT-U ER" (OD U ER)
> meaning
"Fire is that Man" referring to the Sun-God. Thus because of
> the nature of
the Turkish language, "UTU-ER" has become "U TUR"
> meaning
"He is TUR" referring to the ancient Turanian Sun-God UTU
> and also
personifying the Sun-God as a "BULL".