(Copyright © Polat Kaya

December 18, 2003)


Table of Contents 

1. First of all, you say that:

2. You asked:

3. You asked:


Dear Akhilesh Pillalamarri,    

I thank you for your kind and supportive comments. I appreciated them. Your scholarly questions are valid ones and they need to be answered with care. That is why I have taken time in responding. Scholars like yourself who show keen understanding in what I have written deserve my attention. Hovever those who use put-down comments, simply because what I say is contrary to their convictions will not get my attention.

1. First of all, you say that:

> However, my objection is to the fact that the Turks actually appear    
> near Greece (in Antolia, where they replaced the Greek-speakers).    
> around 1050-1100 A.D. while the Mycerian civilization was between   
> 1400-1200 B.C.

Polat Kaya: Your statement "Turks actually appear near Greece (in Antolia, where they replaced the Greek-speakers) around 1050-1100 A.D." actually represents only part of the picture and not all of the picture of the ancient world. In my paper when I pointed out that that the so-called "GILGAMESH" epic was in fact named as "BILGAMESH" originally, the Turkish Language was there. The meaning of this is that Turkish speaking people, whether under the name Tur, Turk, Turukku, Sumer, Ki-en-gi or by any other Turkic name, were there and were using their language in naming the oldest known epic story, i.e., "BILGAMESH" that was intentionally changed to GILGAMESH later. Thus, this ancient epic story's connection with the ancient Turks and Turkish language was intentionally cut off. The presence of a language at a time and a place indicates the presence of those people who spoke that language. The BILGAMESH epic was composed at least some six thousand years ago. The earliest that Greeks can be located is about the beginning of the second millennium B.C. Thus, the appearance of Greeks in history is much more recent a phenomena than the spread of Tur/Turk peoples.         

Encyclopaedia Britannica notes, although hesitatingly, that the Turanians antedated the Aryans in Asia and Europe. This is the fact of the matter. Yet historians make no mention of this fact as if the Turanians never existed. As I mentioned in my paper, the Sumerians, Masarians, Minoans, Thracians, Trojans, Lidians, Phrygians, Pelasgian, Hurrians, Mitannies, Kanaans Turukkus, Kassites, and many more were Turkish speaking Tur peoples contrary to misinformation that have been fed to readers at large. This is why GENESIS 11 says that the world spoke one language. Thus, the first appearance of the Tur/Turk people in the Middle East and Anatolia cannot be around 1050-1100 A.D. as is misleadingly stated.

The Turkish movements from Central Asia that took place at around 1050-1100 AD is just the latest of many ancient movements of the Turkish peoples into all directions of Asia, Europe, Middle East and North Africa. Modern history tries to present the events of 1050 to 1100 AD as the earliest known traces of Turks, but this is done purely for political reasons. This does not mean that Tur/Turk peoples were not in the Middle East before this event.    

When we recognize the ancient world in this light, then we find that those who created the so-called Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations at 1450 B.C. or earlier were in fact the Turkic speaking Tur/Turk peoples. The so-called Trojan wars between the Greeks and the Trojans are nothing but the ancient wars between Tur/Turk Trojans of Troy and the Hellenes. The very fact that the name TROY contains the Turkish words "TUR" and "ÖY" is an indication that Troy was the home of Tur/Turks peoples. The name TROY is an anagram of Turkish "TUR-ÖY" meaning "Home of Tur" or "Tur home". The so-called "PELASGIANS" were the native Tur/Turk people of the Aegean Sea area and Thracia before the Greeks arrived at what is presently called "Greece", that is, the ancient "Ay-Han-istan" (Yunanistan) of the so-called Ionians (Ay-Hans). The Lemnos Island inscription is written in Turkish and is a verification of this fact. http://www.compmore.net/~tntr/lemstelea.html         

Thus it must be realized that Turkish - Greek contact does not take place at year 1050-1100 as we are all led to believe, but rather far earlier. This suppresion of the ancient Tut/Turk civilization is done because of the fact that this ancient Turanian civilization has been usurped (looted).

Before the introduction of Judeo-Christianity, the ancient Tur/Turk world was very widely spread all over the Middle East, North Africa and Europe since very ancient times as the archaeological findings indicate. With the introduction of Judeo-Christianity the ancient Turanian religion and along with it the Turkish language were diligently obliterated and all the ties of Tur/Turk peoples to their ancient world was wiped away. Modern history does not want to remember this ancient Turkic world because Judeo-Christian religious books were used as the source for ancient history. Judeo-Christianity holybooks tell their believers that they should not believe anything that happened before their time. They even reset the reference starting point to Year 0 some two thousand years ago implying that there was no history worth knowing before Judeo-Christianity. The believers are forced and/or induced to forget previous times altogether. And forget they did. Those who schemed to bury that ancient Turanian civilization in the first place will not help to bring it back.     

Just before this response to your letter, I put out a paper entitled "The Riddle of DIOGENES" in the internet forum called historical_linguistics. You could read it, if you wish, at this address:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/historical_linguistics/message/383 It would answer some of your questions.

The earlier Tur/Turk world of Anatolia was wiped away particularly after the military conquests of Alexander the Great and by the Greek states that were established in Anatolia and the Middle East and finally by the so-called Byzantium Empire.    

After the introduction of Judeo-Christianity, the ancient Turanian religious civilization and the Turkish language were subjected to extensive hostile activities. The world-wide Turanian religion was termed as "paganism" or "idol worshipping", animism, shamanism, etc. yet the new religions took all their tenets from this ancient religion. In the process, the ancient Turkish world has been subjected to all kinds of division, extinction, forceful removal and assimilation. Present day Turks have been alienated from their very ancient roots almost completely. As I explained in my previous papers, when the Turkic world was around almost everywhere, with their universal Sun-God, Moon-Good, and Sky-Father-God trinity religion, neither the Greeks nor the so-called "Indo-Europeans" were around.     

Anatolia before Alexander the Great was full of Turkish speaking Tur/Turk peoples. After the invasion of Anatolia and the rest of the Middle East by Alexander the Great, a wholesale Hellenization and obliteration of the ancient Turkish world took place. After the introduction of Judeo-Christianity, the obliteration of this ancient Turanian world was completed until the new waves of Turks (1050 - 1100 AD) started coming again. 

Even the so-called term "Mediterranean Sea" is very much an anagram of Turkic "MEDE TURANIAN SU" (METE TURANIAN SU) meaning "The Sea of the Mata/Mete Turanians" or "Sea of Turanian peoples". Mete is one Turkish name of the ancient Turanian trinity Sky-God. Different versions of this name were used by ancient kings and peoples as titles identifying their affinity to the ancient Turanians and their religion.

2. You asked:

> Please explain, though in my   
> understanding the first "Turks" were assimilated into Greek culture    
> very early on; but there should be a trace of their journey from            
> central asia at least.

Polat Kaya: Movements of Tur/Turk peoples from Central Asia did not occur at one time, but rather was spread over a very wide time span since the ending of the last Ice Age in Europe. Such movements antedate many times over the so-called B.C. reference set about 2000 years ago. With respect to the trace of Turanian Turkish peoples, I will highlight a few but very important traces. First about the ancient Greeks.    

Referring to Thucydides's writings, Hendrik Willem van Loon writes the following about the early Greeks: [1]         

"Of these early hellenes we know nothing. Thucydides, the historian of the fall of Athens, describing his earliest ancestors, said that they "did not amount to very much," and this was probably true. They were very ill-mannered. They lived like pigs and threw the bodies of their enemies to the wild dogs who guarded their sheep. They had very little respect for other people's rights, and they killed the natives of the Greek peninsula (who were called the Pelasgians) and stole their farms and took their cattle and made their wives and daughters slaves and wrote endless songs praising the courage of the clan of the Achaeans, who had led the Hellenic advance-guard into the mountains of Thessaly and the Peloponnesus. 

But here and there, on the tops of high rock, they saw the castles of the Aegeans and those they did not attack for they feared the metal swords and the spears of the Aegean soldiers and knew that they could not hope to defeat them with their clumsy stone axes.        

For many centuries they continued to wander from valley to valley and from mountain side to mountain side. Then the whole land had been occupied and the migration had come to an end.       

That moment was the beginning of the Greek civilization. The Greek farmer, living within sight of the Aegean colonies, was finally driven by curiosity to visit his haughty neighbors. He discovered that he could learn many useful things from the men who dwelt behind the high stone walls of Mycenae and Tiryns.   

He was a clever pupil. Within a short time he mastered the art of handling those strange iron weapons which the Aegeans had brought from Babylon and from Thebes. He came to understand the mysteries of navigation. He began to build little boats for his own use.     

And when he learned everything the Aegeans could teach him he turned upon his teachers and drove them back to their islands. Soon afterwards he ventured forth upon the sea and conquered all the cities of the Aegean. Finally in the fifteenth century before our era he plundered and ravaged Cnossus and ten centuries after their first appearance upon the scene the Hellenes were the undisputed rulers of Greece, of the Aegean and of the coastal regiones of Asia Minor. Troy, was destroyed in the eleventh century B. C. European history was to begin in all seriousness."     
Similarly, the Encyclopaedia Britanniaca writes the following about the Aegean Civilization: [2]       

"Aegean civilization is a general term for the prehistoric Bronze Age cultures of the area around the Aegean Sea covering a period from c. 2500 B.C. or earlier until c. 1100 B.C.,when iron begins to come into general use throughout the area. From the earliest times these cultures fall into four main geographical groups: (1) Crete, , (2) Cycladic islands, (3) the mainland of Greece, including Thessaly, and (4) the Troad (the land of Troy) in northwestern Asia Minor, together with coasts of western Asia Minor, the great coastal islands (Lemnos, Lesbos, Chios, Samos) and Macedonia. The cultures of this fourth group have many affinities with the early cultures of central and southern Asia Minor and are really more allied to them than to the other cultures of the Aegean area. 

TRACE 1: This citing tells us that Greeks were not the indigenous people of so-called ancient "Greece". There were a native people whom Greeks called "Pelasgian" and these peaple had the knowledge and the capability of making "castles' at the top of high places which were most difficult to reach. These natives already had a highly developed civilization, religion and language of their own. However, they were subjected to constant hostility of the incoming Greeks. Boat building was much earlier a navigation technique used by the natives. It was not an invention of Greeks contrary to misinformation. They learned the technique from the native Pelasgians, i.e., ancient Turkish Ay-Hans and Gün-Hans of the area. The name AEGEAN is a composite word made up from the Turkish AY (moon) and GÜN (sun) words embedded in it from Turkish AY-Han and GÜN-Han names similar to many other Greek words that are made up from Turkish words and phrases. Thus words and names belonging to the Turkish language are the first trace indicating Turkish presence in ancient "Greece" or anywhere else. 

TRACE 2: "KURGANS":The "KURGAN" culture is Tur/Turk culture. Burying their dead in very elaborate underground chambers is an ancient Turanian culture. Archaeologists find "kurgans" all over Asia and Europe including ancient Greece and Anatolia and Middle East. Even the ziggurats and pyramids are architectural structures of ancient Turanians.     

The KURGANS, also known as "tumulus", are truly ancient Turkish and Turanian culture contrary to attributing these ancient artifacts to all kinds of peoples. "KURGANs are found throughout Asia and Europe and Anatolia. The word "KURGAN" is a pure Turkish word having the meaning of "1. Fortification, castle, fortress. 2. Tomb, mound, tumulus." The word is most likely from Turkish "KORUGAN" ("KORUYAN") meaning "that which protects". Ancient "kurgans" were the perfectly shaped conical "tombs" pointing to the "sky" and made to protect the dead persons body and all the other artifacts that were put in his/her chamber in order to help him/her in their after life.     

"Kurgans" were another form of "tomb" like the famed "pyramids" of ancient Masar (MISIR) dedicated to the sky-god by kings and rich persons. They looked like an earthen pyramit from a distance. They are made with heaped stones and soil on the top of the chamber that contained the body and belongings of the dead person. The name "Kurgan" also hides away the name "KORGUN" meaning "FIERY SUN" which is a Turkish expression describing the Sun-God. The contents of many such ancient Turkic kurgans presently embellish many museums of the world. Most Kurgans have been robbed for the riches that they contained. Many "kurgans' are found in Euroasia, see map given by Mike Edwards and Sisse Brimberg. [3] Some of the most famed "kurgans" belonged to Phyrgian and Lydian kings in Anatolia. These have nothing to do with the so-called "Indo-European" peoples contrary to bogus claims by some European writers that they are "Indo-European".   

Many similar but small sized conical tombs are found in Eastern Turkistan presently under China. The "pointiness" of many Tur/Turk structures is an ancient Turanian culture that relates to the ancient Turanian Sky-God. Even the tops of ancient Turkish KUMBETS, another tomb structure, are conical. The tops of Turkish minarets are conical. So these monuments are essentially dedicated to the Sky-God. It must be noted that even the so-called English term "TOMB" is from the Turkish word "TUM" meaning artificially made "heap of soil, hill, mound".

Thus those thousands of kurgans that are distributed all over Asia, Europe, Anatolia and other places are the traces that speak in concrete terms of the movements of ancient Turanian Tur/Turk peoples.       

TRACE 3: "ISTAN" name: One of the ancient traces of Turkic peoples are the toponyms given to land reference points where they lived. The word "TOPONYM" is said to be from Greek "topos" meaning "place plus "onyma" meaning name. This is rather misleading. The so-called "topos" is an anagram of Turkish word "tepe" meaning "hill" and "onyma" is an anagram of Turkish word "NAMI" meaning "its name". Thus, even the source of the term "TOPONYM" is from a Turkish expression, i.e., "TEPE NAMU" meaning "the name of a hill" thus a "place name". Thus when we examine Greek words or names we find that Turkish is embedded in them. In other words, so-called "Greek" words are actually Turkish words or phrases that have been restructured to camouflage their Turkish source identity as I have shown with many examples.   

The fact that the country presently called "Greece" is also called "YUNANISTAN" in Turkish indicates that this geographical area was an "ISTAN" country in ancient times. Greeks prefer to be called by the name "Hellen" rather than "Yunan" which is an altered form of "Ay-Han (Ion). The name "YUNANISTAN" is not a name left over from the recent Ottoman times. Its roots go way back to the times of ancient Ionians who predated the Greeks. Thus the Turkish name "ISTAN" is at the heart of the name "YUNANISTAN". This is also supported by other similar names within the same geographical area, such as: "MACARISTAN" for the present Hungary, "BULGARISTAN" for Bulgaria and even "LEHISTAN for Poland.     

The ancient city of CONSTANTIANA in Souteast Romania is from the ancient Turkish expression "KUNISTANTI HANA" meaning "GÜNISTAN home (place)". The Turkish word "HAN" while meaning "Lord" also means "palace" or "place" or "house" in the form "HANA" (hane). The word "Hana" or "hane" has nothing to do with "Persian" although it is also used in that language. The suffix "-A" at the end of "HANA" is the suffix of feminization from the masculine name "HAN". Another name of the city was "CONSTANTA" from Turkish "KUNISTANDI" meaning "it is GÜNISTAN".          

The River DNIEPER in present Ukraine was called "BORYSTHENES" in ancient times. This name is an anagram of Turkish expression "BIR-O ISTAN-SU" meaning "water of ONE-God" which refers to the ancient Turanian SKY-FATHER-GOD. It could also be an anagram of Turkish expression "BÖRI-ISTAN-SU" (Gök-Böri-istan su", "Gök-Kurt-istan su" veya "Bozkurt-istan su") meaning "The water of Gray-Wolf-God" or "Blue Wolf-God". It is interesting to note that even at present there is the Turkish Bashkurtistan autonomous republic in Russia. These are all traces of ancient Turkish presence.

Even the country name "ESTONIA" is a camouflaged form of Turkish "ISTAN ÖYU".    

The famed LAKE of CONSTANCE in the ALP mountains between the frontier of Germany, Austria and Switzerland, gets its name from Turkish "KUNISTANCI". Even the so-called Indo-European name "LAKE" (LAC in French, LOCH in Scottish) is an anagram of Turkish "KÖL" (GÖL) meaning "lake". Turkish "KÖL" (GÖL) read backwards gives the names Lake, Lac and Loch.  

In the same area, the country name AUSTRIA is an anagram of Turkish expression "OUS TUR ÖYI" (OGUZ TUR ÖYÜ) meaning "Home of Oguz Turs/Turks".

The name ALP, as the name of the famed ALP mountains, is from Turkish "AL-aPa" meaning "red father" referring to the name of the ancient Turanian "Sun-God". The Turkish word "ALP" also has the meanings of: hero; brave; difficult to overcome. So are the Alp mountains.  

From all of this, it is seen that the so-called "Eastern Europe" must have been another ancient "TURKISTAN" where Turkish speaking Tur/Turk peoples lived and named their land in Turkish until the so-called "Indo-Europeans" came and altered that "ISTAN" picture of ancient Europe. Evidently, Turkish "ISTAN" named countries were so wide spread that Greeks, after establishing themselves in the area presently called "Greece", initiated "ANTI-ISTAN" activities. I have explained this in my paper on "The Riddle of DIOGENES".   

Even the name "BYZANTIUM" is most likely usurped from the ancient Thracian kingdom name "BISTONIUM" (from Turkish "BEYISTAN ÖYÜM" meaning "my BEYISTAN home" where Turkish "BEY" means "LORD"). Evidently, ancient Greeks depended very heavily on the technique of changing and owning Turkish words, expressions and names. This must have been a way of life for the ancient pre- Byzantine Greeks and Byzantine Greeks. The name "BYZANTIUM" is very much a replacement of an abolished ancient Turkish name, as many other Greek names and words are.        

When the name "BYZANTIUM" is decrypted letter-by-letter as "BIYZTANUM" and read as in Turkish, we find that it is nothing but the anagrammatized Turkish expression "BEYISTANUM" meaning "I am the Lord-God"; secondly, it is from the Turkish expression "BEYISTAN ÖYUM" meaning "My country is Beyistan" where the name "BEYISTAN" is a proper name just as the name "TURKISTAN" is. A third alternative meaning embedded in the name "BYZANTIUM" when decrypted as "BYZ-ANT-IUM" and read as in Turkish, is the Turkish expression "BEYAZ HANTI ÖYÜM" (AKSARAYTI ÖYÜM) meaning " White-House is my Home". All of these very exalting meanings, expressed all in one word, are possible only with Turkish. I should also note that presently many modern Christian countries use this Turkish expression for their "palaces" as "White House" or "Casa Bianca" or "Casa Blanca" meaning "white house". These are not arbitrary choices but rather from an ancient Turkish source.         

The ancient City of ISTANBUL also has a quarter in the heart of the city called "AKSARAY" meaning "white palace". All these are not coincidences. As it is seen, even the name ISTANBUL comes from the Turkish ISTAN as I explained in my recent paper "The Riddle of Diogenes".      

It is no wonder that some famed Europeans have said the following about Turkish:  

Max Mulller: "Turkish is the result of the creative power of the Turkish langugae. It is the product of human intellect's awesome might. There is no other language which can be understood as easily, or enjoyed as much as Turkish."       

Paul Roux: "Turkish is a mathematical language full of thought and intellect."         

Moliere: "Turkish is language to be admired; you can express a great deal by a few words."       

These famed people must have known Turkish rather intimately.         

Of course the most interesting of all is the name of the king CONSTANTINE I the Great who named an ancient town of Thracian Turks on the Bosphorus with the name "CONSTANTINOPOLE" supposedly after his "Greek" name. 

The name CONSTANTINE is anagrammatized from a SUN (GUNES) based Turkish expression. This Roman king, like all other Roman kings, was initially a "pagan" king meaning that he was the believer of the ancient Tur/Turk peoples Sky-God religion. Hence his title was in accordance with the Turanian traditions of titling kings after the Sun in Turkish. He became a Christian later.        

1. In one meaning of his title CONSTANTINE, when it is decrypted letter-by-letter as "CON-STAN-TI-EN", it is an anagram of Turkish expression "KUN-ISTAN-Ti hAN" ("Gün-Istan-di Han") meaning "The Lord was Sun-God" which ennobles him to the level of Sun-God. Thus the title deifies the king in Turkish in accordance with the ancient Turkish tradition.    

As is seen in this anagram, the "CON" part of the title pronounced as "KON" is Turkish "KÜN" (GÜN) meaning "sun", "STAN" is Turkish "ISTAN" meaning "God", "TI" is the Turkish verbal suffix "TI/DI" of verb "to be", and "EN" is the anagram of Turkish "HAN" meaning "lord".   

2. In another meaning of his title CONSTANTINE, when it is decrypted as "CON-ISTAN-T-EN", is from Turkish expression "KÜN-ISTAN aTa-hAN" ("Gün-Istan Ata-Han") meaning "Lord Father is Sun-God". Thus king Constatntine again deifies himself in accordance with ancient Turkic traditions.       

3. In another meaning of his title CONSTANTINE, when it is decrypted as "CONSTANT-EN" and read as in Turkish, is from Turkish expression "KONaSTANTi HAN" (GÜNESTENDI HAN) meaning "The Lord is from Sun" or "Lord is a follower of the Sun". This again identifies the so-called "pagan" identity of this ancient Greek king who chose to hide his real Turkish title in a camouflaged manner. In other words he usurped his title from Turkish as did so many others.  

Additionally, from all this, it becomes evident that the ancient Turkic name "ISTAN" was obliterated from Europe as presently Turkic name "BALKAN" is being slowly obliterated form the Eastern European geography.       

Many other kings, popes and unofficial personalities have taken this exalting Turkish name in a disguised form (i.e., Constantine). Yet none of these names are Greek as claimed but rather are anagrammatized from Turkish into Greek by way of hellenization. 

The city name CONSTANTINOPOLE, when decrypted as "CONISTANTI N OP OEL" is actually an anagram of the Turkish expression "KONISTANTI HAN APA AUL" meaning "Lord Father village is KUNISTAN". This revelation should clear up all confusion associated with the names ISTANBUL and CONSTANTINOPOLE.

We are given the impression that the ancient Greeks founded the city of Constantinopolis. This is not the case. All the Greek colonizers did was open up a trading station near an ancient Thracian town on the Bosphorus. This trading station that they opened up there was used as an excuse to take over the land as was the case in other "trading stations". The point I am trying to make here is that the city was already founded by the earlier Thracians. The name of this ancient city was changed to the present Turkish name of ISTANBUL after it was taken in 1453 by the Great Ottoman Sultan Fatih Mehmet HAN. 

Even the name ISTANBUL is a composite Turkish expression standing for "ISTAN-ABA AUL" meaning "God-Father Village". The word AUL is the ancient Turkish word meaning "village". Presently on the Bosphorus there is an area called "ISTINYE" which is very much the remnant of the ancient name "ISTAN OYÜ" meaning "Home of God". Also on the Bosphorus is the place called "TARABIYA" which is very much the remnant of ancient Turkish "TUR ABA OY" meaning "TUR FATHER HOME".       

TRACE 4: TOMBSTONES ("Mezar Taslari"). Strewn all over Central Asia are the single stone "tombstones' erected for the dead. They are unique in the sense that they are slender, tall, four sided stones where normally the top is cut diagonally leaving a pointed tip at the top. [4] Pointed structures is very much the tradition of ancient Turanians because its religous meaning was that all things to point to "Sky-God". For that reason alone, even ancient Turanian head-dresses were pointed ones which comes to present times in Turkish ISTAN countries. These ancient tombstones are generally embellished with an "EYE" symbol, that is. Either two concentric circles with a dot at the centre or "a circle with a dot at the centre," placed at the top of the stone, and additionally with writings and/or animal pictures on them. The "EYE" symbol is not only a symbol indicating the SUN and MOON disks but is also the symbol of the ancient Sky-Father-God "OGUZ" which has many meanings one of which is Turkish "O-GÖZ" meaning "that eye".   

Quiet often these tombstones have inscriptions written on them describing the identities of the persons that lie in their eternal sleep below the stone. Many detailed descriptions of such tombstones are given by Hüseyin Namik Orkun, "Eski Türk Yazitlari" [5] Türk Dil Kurumu Yayinlari, Ankara, 1987,

Tomb stones similar to the tomb stones of Central Asia are strewn all over Europe all the way to Ireland and Scotland at the west, to Scandinavian countries in the north, to Western France and Germeny in the west and Central Europe.

For example, the village of CARNAC of northwest France [6], in the department of Morbihan and the territory of Lorient (arrondissement of Lorient), 14 km. S.W. of Auray, and nearby Menec menhir system, and another one at a place called Kermario are aligned in rows of such standing stones or alternatively "menhirs" dated some 3000 B.C. The pictures from these "standing stone" sites are very illuminating. Around the village of Carnac in Brittany stand long rows of menhirs, more than 3000 in all, in 11 rows streching as long as two miles. [7]  

Mustafa Gökmen, in describing the Turkish inscriptions on Turkish Tonyukuk monument in Mongolia, states that from the tomb-complex towards east a long chain of "balbals" extend over the hills facing the monument. [8] Thus we find the long chain of stones in rows in central Asian Turkish monuments also.       

The name "menhir" is etymologized as being "men" meaning "stone" and "hir" meaning "tall" [9] which seems to be total misinformation. The French dictionary does not have any of these root words. It is my view that "MENHIR" is from Turkish expression "MEN ER" meaning "I am hero" (I am soldier). Since each one of these stones represent a fallen person, the Turkic etymology is far more appropiate for the described concept. After all these stones are "tombstones" and are not named after their tallness. The MENEC stones are in rows of thousands of stones as if they were "soldiers" in lines ready for some action.  

We find similar tombstones all the way in western SCOTLAND. Iain Zaczek and David Lyons, in their book, provide excellent pictures of such tombstones (menhirs) in Scotland. [10] They are shown to be very much the same structures as the ones found in Central Asia. We also find them in Ireland. [11]         

Thus the Eurpean "menhir' stones are very much the traces of ancient Tur/Turk peoples in Western Europe.         

TRACE 5: Separation of words in writing systems. In many ancient Turanian writings words are separated from each other with dots, generally two dots, i.e., a colon (:), and some times with one, three or four dots. Thus, any confusion that might arise due to mixing words in a line with each other is avoided. This is a characteristic of ancient Turkic writing system. The Gök Türk inscriptions in Central Asia, runic inscriptions on stones found all over Europe, Pelasgian inscriptions, Etruscan inscriptions, and Phrygian inscriptions use the same dot delimiter for word separation. Ancient writings found on rock faces from Wadi Djerat, Tassial in Libian Sahara desert show this type of word separation. [12] Even the words in the picturially written inscription on so-called Phaistos Disk from the Minoans on the island of Crete are separated by lines. 

TRACE 6: The Spiral symbols: An ivory artifact having one centrally located large spiral and three pairs of right and left turning "spiral" motives have been found at Mal'ta (Ma-AL-aTA) near the Lake Baikal, Altay Mountains (Central Asia). [13] Regarding these items, see also Joseph Campbell's book. [14] The artifact has been dated to be some 15,000 years old. Together with this artifact, other ornamental artifacts such as ivory birds (geese or swans), beads, etc. have also been found in the same area all dated 15,000 years old. [15] The right-left turning spiral pairs engraved on rocks and many other mediums have been found all over the world. It has also been used as ornament at the roof tops of ancient buildings and similarly on the capital of Ionic columns. It seems that these spirals are representation of a religious concept. It may be thought of as representations of the Sun and the Moon which were regarded as the right and left eyes of the sky-Father-God. For example the one shown on the shoulders of the two griffins located on either side of the throne in the palace of Knossos of the Minoan ruler in the island of Crete is very much a stylized "eye" which is made with interspiralling of white and dark colors. [16] Of course it is also a stylized symbol of the sun. White and dark represent the duality aspect of the ancient Turanian Sky-God OGUZ religion. Such spirals are also found on the megaliths in Ireland, [17] and and at Carnac in Brittany, France, and the island of Malta in the mediterranean. [18], [19] Thus, the ancient spirals drawn on rocks and other medium provide another trace of the movements of Turanian peoples. The Minoan seals from the island of Crete are full of many stylized "spiral" motives. [20]      

TRACE 7: THE "GRIFFIN" or "Griffin." [21] A "GRIFFIN" is a mythological animal figure having two or three animal figures in one body. They have been defined as: "monster half lion and half eagle". The term "MONSTER" is actually an anagram of Turkish "MANASTUR" (Men As TUR) meaning "I am peerless TUR" defining the ancient Turanian trinity "Sky-God" having three heads in a body, that is, Sky-Father-God, Sun-God and Moon-God.         
Many forms of griffins have been made by ancient Turanian peoples. For example a very vivid example of this is the Etruscan "CHIMERA". Many Minoan seals are engraved with figures of griffins. For example the ones found on Figure 233 in the book by Simon Davis and the sun symbol [22] are very much the same as the ones found on Pazyryk carpet. Additionally, pictures are in the so-called "animal style" of Central Asia.

Griffin motives in ancient art is a Turanian concept based on the trinity aspect of the Turkic Sky-God. "EAGLE" is "KARTAL" in Turkish which is hiding the name "KOR aTa-AL" meaning "Fire Father Red" referring to the Sun-God. Similarly "ARSLAN" is the name for Lion in Turkish. The name ARSLAN hides the Turkish expression "ER AS ALA HAN" meaning "Peerless Man Spotted Lord" which refers to Sky-father God And the Moon-God. Thus the trinity aspect of the ancient Turanian Sky-God was expressed with such animal names.      

It must be noted that the famed 2500 year old PAZYRYK rug [23], the oldest known Turkish woollen carpet, dated 5th century B.C. and discovered inside a frozen tomb in Central Asia portrays many of these so-called "griffins" along the border of the carpet.   

Presently even the Turkic Autonomous Republic of NOGAY in Russia has a griffin figure on their national flag. [24]    

Tamara Talbot Rice provides samples of griffins in the art of Seljuk Turks. [25] . One of the chief characteristics of such Turanian griffins is a "comma", i.e., "," or "crescent" shaped "wing" embellishment attached to the body at the shoulders. The earlier versions have "crescent" shaped wings. This is found in most of the griffins found in the ancient Middle East and Mediterranean area. Including those by the Etruscans.         

Another similar example of such beings is the Greek mythological "Centaur" which I regard as another form of a griffin. 

The name "CENTAUR" is said to come from Latin "CENTAURUS" which is said to be from Greek "KENTAUROS". They are regarded as descendants of Ixion. [26] Ixion in Greek mythology is a Tessalian king and father of the Centaurs, who was punished by Zeus for his love for Hera by being tied to a perpetually revolving wheel in Hades." [27] Larousse World Mythology defines it as "one who was guilty of attempting to violate Hera, was fastened to a wheel of fire that turned in the air". [28] Thus Ixion must be the Sun. The so-called Greek mythological "KENTAUROS" is defined as "half man and half horse". In view of this background information, I say the name "KENTAUROS" is anagrammatized from a Turkish expression. It is interesting to note that when the Greek name KENTAUROS is decrypted letter-by-letter as "KUN AT ER OS" is an anagram of Turkish "KUN AT ER US" (Gün At-Er Us) meaning "Sun Horse-Man wise" which defines the half man and half horse aspect of "KENTAUROS". The Turkish composite name "AT-ER" means "Horse - Man". But this name "KUN AT ER US" is also Turkish expression "KUN ATa ER US" meaning "Sun-Father is Man-Wise" or "Sun-Father is God-Oz" which defines the ancient Turanian Sky-God Oguz.        

Another Greek version of Centaur is "BUCENTAUR" which is defined as one of a race of monsters, having the head, arms and torso of a man united to the body and legs of a bull/ox. Its Greek form is "Boukentauros" and Italian form "Bucentoro". [29] Its etymology is said to be from Greek "bous" meaning "bull" + "kentauros" meaning "Centaure". The Greek term "bous" meaning "bull" is from Turkish "BOA" meaning "bull". The ancient Turanians used the bull (Turkish OKUS, English OX) as their icon for their Sky God. Thus, "Boukentauros", when decrypted letter-by-letter as "BOE KUN TUR AUS", is made up from Turkish words "BOA(bull) + KUN (sun) + TUR (god) + AUS (Oguz)" meaning "Bull Sun is GOD Oguz" or alternatively "BOA KÜN OGUSTUR" meaning "Bull is Sun God Oguz". Thus while "BOA" makes the "bull" part of the body, "KÜN-TUR OGUZ" or "KÜN OGUZTUR" make the "human" part of half-man and half bull mythological being. Thus, "BUCENTAUR" is again a personification of the ancient Turanian Sky-god and the name is made from Turkish words contrary to common belief that it is Greek. Other forms of these names in other Indo-European languages are also anagrammatized forms of Turkish sources.        

TRACE 8: The Sphinx: Defined as a "Monster having typically a lions body, wings, and the head and bust of a woman; specifically, the Sphinx of Thebes, who proposed a riddle to all passers and upon their failure to guess it destroyed them. Oedipus guessed the riddle, the Sphinx slew herself, and he became king of Thebes. The riddle: What creature walks in the morning upon four feet, at noon upon two, at evening upon three". The Answer: Man, as a baby on hands and knees, later on his feet, and in old age with a staff. 2. A person of inscrutable character and purposes; any person or monster thought of as like the sphinxs. 3. Egypt, Archaeol. An image of a recumbent lion having the head of a man (an androsphinx, as the Sphinx at Giza representing Harmachis, the morning sun), a ram, or a hawk." [30]    

It is most interesting to note that this riddle is also reported with six different versions in Turkish as a Turkish riddle among some 14000 riddles that Prof. Ilhan Basgöz has reported. [31]    

It is also important to note that the name Thebes is a riddled name: In one meaning it is the ancient Masarian head city (capital city). THEBES is an anagram of Turkish TEPE" meaning "the head". 

THEBES was the "head city" of ancient southern Masar (Egypt). Additionally, THEBES refers to the "head" of man. In the given story, the statement "Oedipus became a king to Thebes" is itself a riddle. "OEDIPUS" when decrypted as "O DIPE US", name shows itself to be an anagram of Turkish "O TEPE US" meaning "it is the wisdom of the head" which rules human beings. This revelation also explains partly the so-called mythological Greek story of "OEDIPUS" which is so complex a riddle that it has not been solved so far.    

The Sphinx at Giza is said to represent the name "Harmachis" meaning "the morning sun", a ram, or a hawk. The "morning sun" is the "magnificent fire eye" that is born each morning. With thisbackground information, we have the following meanings for "Harmachis":    

a) In the first meaning, "HARMACHIS" ( < "HAR MA CHIS") is an anagram of Turkish "KOR MA GÖZ" meaning "Fire magnificent eye" referring to the sun;

b) In the second meaning of being a "ram", "HARMACHIS" ( < "HAR MA CHIS") is an anagram of Turkish expression "ER MA KOCh" (Er Ma koç) meaning "Magnificent Ram Man"; and    

c) in the third meaning being a "hawk", "HARMACHIS" is an anagram of the Turkish expression "HUR MA KUSh" meaning "Free Magnificent Bird" which refers to all "birds of pray" and also the "Sun". Hawk is one such bird.         

d) Additionally, the name "HARMACHIS" ( < "HAR MA CHIS") is an anagram of Turkish expression "KOR MA GUZ" ("Kor Ma Oguz") meaning "Fire Magnificient OGUZ" referring to the ancient Turanian Sky-God SUN, and/or "ER MA GUZ" (Er Ma Oguz) meaning "Man Magnificent Oguz" referring to the ancient Turanian Sky-Father-God.     

All of these names define the ancient Turanian Sky-God in a mythological manner but all in Turkish. It must be noted that the ancient Masarian sky-god was regarded as a "Hawk god", i.e "HOR" or in Greek "HORUS" god. It is interesting to note that "HORUS" is very similar to HOROZ which is the Turkish name for a "rooster".         

Thus both the "Griffin" and the "Sphinx" motives in art objects are the personification of the ancient Turanian Sky-God. These art objects are found throughout the ancient world and are one of the traces of Tur/Turk peoples. The Great Sphynx of Giza is a most famous evidence of this Turanian trace.

Turkic Sphinx figure examples are found in the book by Tamara Talbot Rices. [32].    

TRACE 9: Turanian double bend bow: The Phaistos disk from the island of Crete, a Minoan art object from the Minoan period, shows the Turanian double-bent bow on the starting point of the outer circle around the disk indicating that Tur/Turk peoples were there and the civilization left by them were Turkic. The reader should see a picture of the Phaistos disk. [33] The double bent bow was another symbolic trace that ancient Tur/Turk peoples left behind. This symbol can be observed in many artifacts all over the ancient world.       

The double-bent structure of the Turkish bow enables the user to shoot his arrow to double the distance as compared to the distance that one can achieve with an ordinary bow. 

Etruscan art shows many examples of the Turkic double-bent bow used by Etruscan horse riding soldiers. In fact, the Etruscan horse-riding soldiers knew the Turkish way of turning back and shooting an arrow on an oncoming enemy while he was riding away from the enemy. [34] This was one of the most skilful and effective Turkic fighting tactics in ancient times. While galloping away on his horse, the enemy would think he was panicking and retreating but really the Turk horseman was enticing his enemy to follow him into a hidden encirclement trap. It was a refined tactical maneuver.

TRACE 10: The ancient Turanian "animal style" [35] of art is not only local to Central Asia and Eastern Eurasia, but also to other places as well among which is the islands of Aegean Sea, for example, the Island of Crete. Figures drawn on many seals left over from the Minoan civilization in Crete are evidences of it. [36]         

In this regard the so-called Scythian golden art work found throughout Asia should be compared. [37]     

TRACE 11: The "Bull" motive found in many ancient cultures of Asia, Europe, Anatolia, Middle East and North Africa are the remnants of the ancient Turkish OGUZ religion whose icon was the Bull (OKUZ).       

I could mention many other traces left over from ancient Tur/Turk peoples. However, these should be sufficient to prove my point. I am glad that you brought the subject up by your question.

3. You asked:

> Also, the Eurasian steppes were dominated by      
> Iranian sprakers (Scytians, etc.) before the arrival of Turkic      
> peoples. Enlighten me please. I am a new member to this group, btw.

Polat Kaya: SAKA (Iskit) people so-called "Scythians) were Central Asiatic Turkish peoples. Turks regard them as one of their ancient ancestors.
Regarding "Scytians" as "Iranian speaking" peoples is a misinformation that has been spread without being questioned. So-called "Scythians", Turkish "ISKIT" and/or "SAKA" Turks, were Turkic speaking Turkish people. [38] It must be noted that there is a play on the word "Iranian" here. The word "Iranian" does not mean that all of the people of Iran were always and totally so-called "Indo-European" stock. Even in present day almost half the population of Iran is comprised of Turkish peoples. In ancient times Iranian geography was inhabited by Turanian peoples before the arrivals of "Indo-Europeans". The so-called "Iranian Saka" peoples were not Indo-European although they have been claimed as such by some writers. The ancient Iranian Mede people of Medeans were Turkish speaking Tur peoples. Their name comes from Turkish "METE". The ancient people of Turukkus on Zagros mountains were Turkish peoples. Even presently KASHGAI Turks are the inhabitants of the Zagros mountains.    

Presently in Siberia the Turkish Autonomous Republic of Sakha still carry the name of "SAKA". The so-called "Sakhalin" islands in the eastern coast of Asia carry the name "Saka". The name "SAKHALIN" comes from Turkish expression "SAKA ILI" meaning "Saka land" (Saka country). The sea between the Sakhalin islands and the mainland Asia was called "TATAR Sea."     

But the Saka Turks have been in many other geographies. The fact is that the second founding king of the ancient Masar (so-called "Egypt") was named "SAKA" and they were from Central Asian Tur/Turk peoples. As I pointed out earlier in my paper that even ancient Masar's (MISIR) founding king was named MENES (MANAS). Even the title of the famed Pharoh" called "KUFU" is actually Turkich "KAFA" meaning "head". So, the Saka Turks were also in north Africa.    

The name of the island SICILY is from Turkish "SAKA ILU" meaning "Saka country" (Iskit country). The Latin name "TRINACRIAN" means "Sicilian" and the Latin name "TRINACRIA" meant Sicily. [39] The Latin name "TRINACRIA", when decrypted letter-by-letter as "TRANCI-R=IA" is an anagram of Turkish expression "TuRANCI eR ÖYÜ" meaning "Home of Turanian man" which verifies the name "SAKA ILI" (Sicily). Even this name verifies that Saka people of ancient Sicily were Tur/Turk people.         

The native "Pelasgians" of ancient "Greece", that is, "Ayhanistan" or "Yunanistan" were kins to Ionians and Trojans. The name "SAKA" is embedded in the name "PELASGIAN". The name "SCAMANDER", i.e., the name of the small river flowing by ancient city of Troy and immortalized by Homer in his renown epic ILIAD, carry the Turkic name "SAKAMAN DERE" meaning "the Sakaman-brook". The name "SCAMANDER" is an altered version of Turkish "SAKAMAN DERE".    

The name CORSICA must be from Turkish "KOR SAKA" meaning "Fire Saka" as believers of the Sun. 

The name SCANDIA or SCANDIUM for "Scandinavia" is from Turkish "SaKa-hAN-aTa ÖYÜ" meaning "Home of Father Lord Saka". The name SCANDIUM "SaKa hANDI ÖYÜM" meaning "My home (country) was SAKA house (land)". Turkish word "Han" means both "lord" and also "palace" like house. The Scandinavian word Thor/Tor/Tyr meaning "God" is nothing but the Turkish name TUR which stands not only for the ancient Turanian Sky-God but also is the ethnic name for Tur/Turk peoples after their Sky-God TUR. It is no wonder that there are so many runic inscribed stone monuments strewn all over "Scandia". Those stones are their Turkic trace.    

Even the name "SCOTIA" for SCOTLAND most likely comes from Turkish "ISKIT ÖYÜ" meaning "home of Iskit (Scot)" or "Home of the "Scots". It can also be taken as Turkish "SAKA ATA ÖYÜ" meaning "Father Saka home". Turkish ISKIT and Scotchman's term SKOT are very much the same. This affinity is also verified by Scotland's ancient stone structures which are the same as the ones in Central Asia. [40] Ancient stone structures of Scotland are given with excellent pictures in a book by Iain Zaczek and David Lyons. [41].  

Similarly compare the ancient Scotland's "minaret" like structure [42] with Seljuk minaret like structures (see p. 217 Plate 1, p. 232 plate No. 20 the ramparth of the castle). [43]      

In the same book by Iain Zaczek and David Lyons, one should compare ancient Scot art (page 108, designs on a Cross slab),i.e., the interwoven animal figures and spirals with the Turkish Seljuk art work in Tamara Talbot Rices Book Plate No. 44 and 57. Similarly with the Irelands art works. [44]

The art works and structures of ancient peoples of Scotland and the art works and structures of Tur peoples of Central Asia are amazingly the same. These cannot be attributed to coincidences.   


Dear Akhilesh, with all these background information, I demonstrated sufficient number of visible "traces" left behind by the Tur/Turk peoples of ancient times. I also showed how widely the Tur/Turk presence was spread in the geograpy of the ancient world. From all this we get a glimpse of how much obliteration, suppression, assimilation and usurpation the ancient Turanian peoples and their civilization, that is, their ancient religion, language, culture and achievements, have been subjected to during the recent several millennia. What I have said in this paper are quite contrary to the established claims that readers are accustomed to read. A wide variety of things that I have indicated above are the results of carefully scrutinized research that I have been doing for a long time. I hope this will help to satisfy some of your questiones that you rightfully



[1] Hendrik Willem van Loon, "The Story Of Mankind", published by Pocket Books New York, 1973, p. 50-52.         
[2] Encyclopaedia Britannica (EB), 1963, Vol. 1, p. 187. 
[3] Mike Edwards and Sisse Brimberg (photographs), Searching For The Scythians", National Geographic, Vol. 190, No. 3, September 1996, p. 60-61.    
[4] Kamil Hüseyinoglu, "<<Turan - Türk>> ve <<GUN-GUZ>> Etnonimleri Hagginda Geydler" Türk Dünyasi TARIH ve KÜLTÜR Dergisi" By Türk Dünyasini Arastirma Vakfi (TDAV), No. 155, Kasim 1999, s. 53.  
[5] Hüseyin Namik Orkun, "Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu Yayinlari, Ankara, 1987.     
[6] Encyclopaedia britannica, 1963, Vol. 4, p. 928. And the Plates I and II with "menhir" pictures. 
[7] "Mysteries of the past" edited by Joseph J. Thorndike. Jr., American Heritage Publishing Co., Inc., New York, 1977, p. 51.    
[8] Mustafa Gökmen, "Eski Türk Kitabeleri", Nakislar Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1981, p. 99. 
[9] Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 624.         
[10] Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Scotland", Prospero Books, 1998, p. 24-27, 54-55, 57, and others.        
[11] Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Ireland", 1998, p. 33, p. 48, p. 64-65 (balbal like), p. 70, p. 85 The Royal Seat of Tara (TURA), and p. 144.    
[12] Joseph Campbell, "Historical Atlas of World Mythology, Vol. I The way of The Anymal Powers" Harper & Row, Publishers New York, 1988, p. 87 Fig. 155.  
[13] National Geographic, Vol. 174, No. 4, October 1988, p. 440.       
[14] Joseph Campbell, "Historical Atlas of World Mythology, Vol. I The way of The Anymal Powers" Harper & Row, Publishers New York, 1988, p. 72.
[15] National Geographic, Vol. 174, No. 4, October 1988, p. 472.       
[16] "Mysteries of the past" edited by Joseph J. Thorndike. Jr., American Heritage Publishing Co., Inc., New York, 1977, p. 75     
[17] Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Ireland", 1998, p. 86, 87, 90, and p. 152 two ying-yan spirals.    
[18] "Mysteries of the past" edited by Joseph J. Thorndike. Jr., p. 46-47.     
[19] Colin Renfrew and Adam Woolfitt (Photograps), "Ancient Europe Is Older Than we Thought", National Geographic, Vol. 152, No.5, November 1977, p. 619.     
[20] Simon Davis, "The Decipherment of the Minoan Linear A and Pictographic Scripts", Witwatersrand University Press, Johannesburg, 1967, p. 169-179.
[21] Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 438.       
[22] Simon Davis, "The Decipherment of the Minoan Linear A and Pictographic Scripts", Witwatersrand University Press, Johannesburg, 1967.
[23] Nina Hyde and Cary Woolinsky (photogrphs), "Wool - Fabric of History", National Geographic Vol. 173, No. 5, May 1988, p. 558-559.
[24] Türk Dünyasi TARIH ve KÜLTÜR Dergisi", TDAV, No. 201, Eylul 2003. See Turkic flags on the front cover page of this publication.
[25] Tamara Talbot Rice, "The Seljuks in Asia Minor", London Thames and Hudson, London, 1961, p. 172, p. 245 Plate 56, p. 246 Plate 57, 59, p. 249 Plate 64 (top rosette an plate 65.   
[26] 1. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 164. 2. Encyclopaedia Britannica World Language Dictionary (EBWLD), 1963, Vol. 1, p. 215.
[27] Encyclopaedia Britannica World Language Dictionary (EBWLD), 1963, Vol. 1, p. 679.    
[28] Pierre Grimal (editor), "Larousse World Mythology", Paul Hamlyn, London - New Yorkd, 1969, p. 137.         
[29] Encyclopaedia Britannica World Language Dictionary (EBWLD), 1963, Vol. 1, p. 173     .
[30] Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 957.       
[31] Ilhan Bashgöz, "Türk Bilmeceleri II", Kültür Bakanligi Basvuru Kitaplari, Ankara, 1993, s. 618, Bilmece No. 939.    
[32] Tamara Talbot Rice, "The Seljuks in Asia Minor", London Thames and Hudson, London, 1961, p. 243 plate 47, p. 244 Plate 51.  
[33] Steven Roger Fisher, "Glyph Breaker", Copernicus, New York, 1997, see Side A picture of the Phaistos Disk after p. 117, (Bow and
arrow symbols).
[34] 1. Werner Keller, "The Etruscans", Alfred A. Knopf, New Yotk, 1974, p.118 (London, British Museum), ("The mounted Bowman, detail
from the lid of a bronze urn). 2. Polat Kaya , "Etrüsk, Kartaca ve Türk Dünyasi Baglantisi, Etrüsk Pirgi Yazitlarinin Okunmasi", Türk Dünyasi Tarih ve Kültür Dergisi, TDAV, Mayis 1999, p. 54. 3.Michael Grant, "The Etruscans", Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1980. See illustration entitled: Amazon from the rim of a cauldron from Capua".       
[35] Nina Hyde and Cary Woolinsky (photogrphs), "Wool - Fabric of History", National Geographic Vol. 173, No. 5, May 1988, p. 559.
[36] Simon Davis, "The Decipherment of the Minoan Linear A and Pictographic Scripts", Witwatersrand University Press, Johannesburg, 1967, pages 190- 215.  
[37] Mike Edwards and Sisse Brimberg (photographs), Searching For The Scythians", National Geographic, Vol. 190, No. 3, September 1996, p. 54- 58, 59, 64-65.       
[38] Dr. Ilhami Durmus, "ISKITLER (SAKALAR"", Türk Kültürünü Arastirma Enstitüsü, Ankara, 1993, 
[39] Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 1947, p. 1069.     
[40] 1. Kamil Hüseyinoglu, "<<Turan - Türk>> ve <<GUN-GUZ>> Etnonimleri Hagginda Geydler" Türk Dünyasi TARIH ve KÜLTÜR Dergisi" By Türk Dünyasini Arastirma Vakfi (TDAV), No. 155, Kasim 1999, s. 53. 2. Hüseyin Namik Orkun, "Eski Türk Yazitlari", Türk Dil Kurumu Yayinlari, Ankara, 1987.
[41] Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Scotland", Prospero Books, 1998, p. 24-27, 54-55, 57, and others.        
[42] Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Scotland", p. 113.          
[43] Tamara Talbot Rice, "The Seljuks in Asia Minor", p. 217 Plate 1, p. 232 Plate 20.        
[44] Iain Zaczek and David Lyons (Photography), "Ancient Ireland", 1998, p. 152.   

Best wishes to all,    

Polat Kaya     

December 18, 2003   


Kamil KARTAL wrote: 
> From: Akhilesh Pillalamarri valardil@y... 
> Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:23 pm         
> Subject: About the Turkish and Greek post      
> That post, built on nothing I knew well before is very good and       
> almost totally convinces me, congratulations to the author of it.    
> However, my objection is to the fact that the Turks actually appear         
> near Greece (in Antolia, where they replaced the Greek-speakers)   
> around 1050-1100 A.D. while the Mycerian civilization was between 
> 1400-1200 B.C. The Turic peoples did not leave their homeland until         
> 600 AD. So there is a date discrepency. Please explain, though in my        
> understanding the first "Turks" were assimilated into Greek culture 
> very early on; but there should be a trace of their journey from     
> central asia at least. Also, the Eurasian steppes were dominated by          
> Iranian sprakers (Scytians, etc.) before the arrival of Turkic 
> peoples. Enlighten me please. I am a new member to this group, btw.      
> ~*AKHILESH*~      
> --- In 
bcn2003-II@yahoogroups.com, Polat Kaya <tntr@C...> wrote:         
> > Dave and all,     
> >     
> > Greetings. This paper is in response to Dave's questions directed 
> > at me. It became necessarily long in order to explain Turkish      
> > related background which has been blurred by mountains of        
> > disinformation.